Norwick: Design Phase
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@854d06dbb2=Ulyetia:
As far as I know anyway, you 1 get a saving throw against the cold, and 2, it isnt like every single round the moment you're away from the camp fire. It would be the same as the road to Ormpur, once and a while it makes you save, you fail, you get cold and take damage.
The thing is, places where cold damge is currently applied – like the Cold Caves and the road to Ormpur -- are places where characters venturing onto them are going to be at least level 5 (or are really asking for death anyway). They have the HP and in many cases the saves to put up with this. It's a drip, drip, drip. They are also going to be (if not asking for death) in groups where their friends can take care of them if they go down.
Whereas a lvl one sorcerer with 5 HP is looking at stepping out of the inn, walking towards the front gate, failing their pathetic fort save, and going to the fugue from Uninjured.
Or a lvl 3 could stagger in the gate having barely survived a vicious combat with gob- whoops, cold got him!
Not fun, will make low levels even less friendly, not an idea what IMHO should be implemented.
-Lagermane
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As far as I know anyway, you 1 get a saving throw against the cold, and 2, it isnt like every single round the moment you're away from the camp fire. It would be the same as the road to Ormpur, once and a while it makes you save, you fail, you get cold and take damage.
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@e6591e404d=Shido_Shurukai:
Has anyone here played Hordes of the Underdark? Well, I'd like to rebut the cold idea with a little bit of a spoiler:
When you end up in Cania, you take cold damage whenever you arn't near a fire. You can die from this cold, and it just makes things tedious when travelling is a mad dash from one bonfire to the next. This would also punish people who can't cast Endure Elements, as travelling would be extremely dangerous without it. I like realism as much as the next guy, but I think it would do more harm than good to make people take cold damage.
Also, unless the cold damage is rather high (like over 5 a pop, which seems to me a great way to accidentally kill our low level mages and rogues and bards) I predict that you'll simply see a certain tailor's shop in Pelt do a brisk business selling a certain type of magical cloak, which will then become all the fashion outdoors as people continue to blissfully ignore the cold.
-Lagermane
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Has anyone here played Hordes of the Underdark? Well, I'd like to rebut the cold idea with a little bit of a spoiler:
When you end up in Cania, you take cold damage whenever you arn't near a fire. You can die from this cold, and it just makes things tedious when travelling is a mad dash from one bonfire to the next. This would also punish people who can't cast Endure Elements, as travelling would be extremely dangerous without it. I like realism as much as the next guy, but I think it would do more harm than good to make people take cold damage.
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@807d16a7f3=Darkspyr:
A small thing perhaps and maybe should have restarted the southern defenses post. I was wondering about a sally port in the wall to the east of the hill at teh new south gate defenses. A small "door" that could be opened with a Militia Barracks key to sneak out scouts or rescue parties without compromising the main gates.
LOVE that idea
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A small thing perhaps and maybe should have restarted the southern defenses post. I was wondering about a sally port in the wall to the east of the hill at teh new south gate defenses. A small "door" that could be opened with a Militia Barracks key to sneak out scouts or rescue parties without compromising the main gates.
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@73a75c3d0e=Kerby:
@73a75c3d0e=Sethan:
If you're going to be hitting people with cold damage in an area, none of that warm weather terrain makes sense there.
Fast running water can happen in below freezing temps.
Yes it can - though the sentence previous to the one you quoted above mentioned liquid standing water. A good example would be the lake immediately south of Norwick's south gate.
@73a75c3d0e=Kerby:
And it can be BITTERLY cold without snow on the ground. This is supposed to be tundra and pine forests.
It can be - but you don't generally see green grass and deciduous trees where this is the case, if it is that cold for more than a very brief period.
If it is supposed to be tundra and pine forests, then we are talking about some map changes (within the limits of the toolset). For crafting purposes, deciduous trees might be a good deal more difficult to find too, except in warmer or more sheltered areas.
@73a75c3d0e=Kerby:
I could see having campfires make a person immune to the area cold, but with the limitations in terrain available, imagination is sometimes needed.
I would love to see campfires make a person immune to the area cold.
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So combine the guardhouse with the barracks. have some of the militia stuff in it. Faster to muster troops to trouble, then.
You can always combine the interior guardhouse map with other norwick buildings, as well
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A perfect place for shakedowns, charging of tolls, detaining suspicious persons…
It's not a bad idea... though the idea of having to transition twice just to leave the town makes my eye start twitching a little.
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I love the idea of a gatehouse
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Exactly like a gatehouse. In fact, historically, weren't inns within walled towns place right AT the frontgate (both inside and outside… although not usually connected) to insure traveller's would be able to find housing without getting lost or waylaid deeper within the town. Also kept the strangers out of the more communal parts of the towns.
this would just be taking that concept one step furter. As for not being able to hear a war happening right outside? Dunno... anyway to make a script so that yells or talk could be heard from a surrounding area? Never know until you ask.
@67c52e6eed=Sethan:
If you're going to be hitting people with cold damage in an area, none of that warm weather terrain makes sense there.
Fast running water can happen in below freezing temps. And it can be BITTERLY cold without snow on the ground. This is supposed to be tundra and pine forests. I could see having campfires make a person immune to the area cold, but with the limitations in terrain available, imagination is sometimes needed.
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@66cb4b35eb=Sethan:
That said, this below is a neat idea:
@66cb4b35eb=Kerby:
I was always for making the Boarshead a gateway to the south by having it half out of the town and half in with walls butting up to both sides of the building. Walk in one door in-town… through the main hall... and out into a walled area and with a gate and a tower to the south.
Like a gatehouse, you mean ? ( This thread Page 2, post #8 )
Groundhog day, indeed !
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@80d15c1bd9=Kerby:
Thing about the beergarden ties into what I was doing popping people with cold spells as a DM while they all frolicked around the campfire south of Norwick. This is NARFELL folks… bitter cold northern block-o-ice place.
Fine - then lets do away with all that green grass and trees and liquid standing water.
If you're going to be hitting people with cold damage in an area, none of that warm weather terrain makes sense there.
That said, this below is a neat idea:
@80d15c1bd9=Kerby:
I was always for making the Boarshead a gateway to the south by having it half out of the town and half in with walls butting up to both sides of the building. Walk in one door in-town… through the main hall... and out into a walled area and with a gate and a tower to the south.
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That's what I get for just skimming through the thread as I play!
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groundhog day?
points at page 2
@34adc722d8:
Actually, if you want people to use the Boarshead, make it a Biergarten - i.e., a place that serves outdoors (preferably with a covered area, but with no walls).
People tend to not use indoor taverns because a war could be happening outside and you would never know - and you tend to miss all sorts of good opportunities to adventure as people happen by.
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Since the big "meeting spot" is outdoors….why not have an enterprising dwarf set up a nice, cozy beer garden by the south gate?
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Hrmm.. would be interesting to see a way into the crypt underneath the Inn…
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@96563fcaec=Dorakhan:
I think a better solution would be to start tossing plot hooks inside the inn. If you take DM attention away from the south fire and move it to the inn, people will hang out there more often waiting for things to happen, and in the mean time, should RP with each other. People tend to hang where the action is.
Exactly. And vice versa. If players go to the inn, the DMs will follow.
When I first started playing Narf, I used to hang out in the inn all the time. To me, it didn't make sense to stand out in the freezing cold huddling around a little campfire (this is when Norwick was covered in snow - yuck!).
I spent many hours RPing with other players and had some great times in there. Sometimes, we would get DM attention and we would often end events back at the same hall.
Of course, that's before I knew "better" and learned that the "in" place to be was hangin' out by the south gate (stupid Noob!).
I hardly ever go into the inn now, of course, the ground isn't covered in snow anymore either.
I think it would be great for to move things back inside the inn.
Z
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I think a better solution would be to start tossing plot hooks inside the inn. If you take DM attention away from the south fire and move it to the inn, people will hang out there more often waiting for things to happen, and in the mean time, should RP with each other. People tend to hang where the action is.
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@05112cacf5=Lagermane:
I don't think the current layout of the Boarshead has much to do with its disuse. Frankly the Boarshead has never gotten a lot of use ever; people preferred to sit around the south fire by the gate. (I remember Kerby getting frustrated and zapping people with ray of frost to simulate cold and convince them to move indoors.) Simply put, unless they want to be undisturbed, people are going to migrate to a 'traffic/action hub,' that is, somewhere that they can see/meet people coming through the town and spot/be tagged for the DM event of the night. Nobody's going to hang out in an inn, no matter how you appoint it, if doing so means they're going to miss the action and conversation outside.
If you want the Boarshead to get any use, you are going to have to route traffic through it somehow or give people a real compelling reason to hang out in it.
Thing about the beergarden ties into what I was doing popping people with cold spells as a DM while they all frolicked around the campfire south of Norwick. This is NARFELL folks… bitter cold northern block-o-ice place. I was always for making the Boarshead a gateway to the south by having it half out of the town and half in with walls butting up to both sides of the building. Walk in one door in-town... through the main hall... and out into a walled area and with a gate and a tower to the south.
Then pop up a random low saving through versus cold damage outside (EVERYWHERE!!). Sell fur cloaks that allow you to ignore the saves, but give a DEX penalty for encumbering the wearer. Perhaps give being inside give a increased rate of healing. Or make it so that you had to spend a certain amount of time indoors, to reduce a slowly stacking penalty on your saves to the outside cold script? Not sure, but the idea of outdoor beer garden kind of goes contrary to the idea I always had in my head of the Narfell region and Norwick being the kind of place like Indiana Jones found Marion in in Siberia in the Raiders of the Lost Ark.
If there was anyway to regionalize yells, that would be great. Then you wouldn't have the problem of being inside and not knowing something big was going on right outside of a building.
My 2¢
