Norwick: Design Phase
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@80d15c1bd9=Kerby:
Thing about the beergarden ties into what I was doing popping people with cold spells as a DM while they all frolicked around the campfire south of Norwick. This is NARFELL folks… bitter cold northern block-o-ice place.
Fine - then lets do away with all that green grass and trees and liquid standing water.
If you're going to be hitting people with cold damage in an area, none of that warm weather terrain makes sense there.
That said, this below is a neat idea:
@80d15c1bd9=Kerby:
I was always for making the Boarshead a gateway to the south by having it half out of the town and half in with walls butting up to both sides of the building. Walk in one door in-town… through the main hall... and out into a walled area and with a gate and a tower to the south.
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That's what I get for just skimming through the thread as I play!
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groundhog day?
points at page 2
@34adc722d8:
Actually, if you want people to use the Boarshead, make it a Biergarten - i.e., a place that serves outdoors (preferably with a covered area, but with no walls).
People tend to not use indoor taverns because a war could be happening outside and you would never know - and you tend to miss all sorts of good opportunities to adventure as people happen by.
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Since the big "meeting spot" is outdoors….why not have an enterprising dwarf set up a nice, cozy beer garden by the south gate?
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Hrmm.. would be interesting to see a way into the crypt underneath the Inn…
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@96563fcaec=Dorakhan:
I think a better solution would be to start tossing plot hooks inside the inn. If you take DM attention away from the south fire and move it to the inn, people will hang out there more often waiting for things to happen, and in the mean time, should RP with each other. People tend to hang where the action is.
Exactly. And vice versa. If players go to the inn, the DMs will follow.
When I first started playing Narf, I used to hang out in the inn all the time. To me, it didn't make sense to stand out in the freezing cold huddling around a little campfire (this is when Norwick was covered in snow - yuck!).
I spent many hours RPing with other players and had some great times in there. Sometimes, we would get DM attention and we would often end events back at the same hall.
Of course, that's before I knew "better" and learned that the "in" place to be was hangin' out by the south gate (stupid Noob!).
I hardly ever go into the inn now, of course, the ground isn't covered in snow anymore either.
I think it would be great for to move things back inside the inn.
Z
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I think a better solution would be to start tossing plot hooks inside the inn. If you take DM attention away from the south fire and move it to the inn, people will hang out there more often waiting for things to happen, and in the mean time, should RP with each other. People tend to hang where the action is.
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@05112cacf5=Lagermane:
I don't think the current layout of the Boarshead has much to do with its disuse. Frankly the Boarshead has never gotten a lot of use ever; people preferred to sit around the south fire by the gate. (I remember Kerby getting frustrated and zapping people with ray of frost to simulate cold and convince them to move indoors.) Simply put, unless they want to be undisturbed, people are going to migrate to a 'traffic/action hub,' that is, somewhere that they can see/meet people coming through the town and spot/be tagged for the DM event of the night. Nobody's going to hang out in an inn, no matter how you appoint it, if doing so means they're going to miss the action and conversation outside.
If you want the Boarshead to get any use, you are going to have to route traffic through it somehow or give people a real compelling reason to hang out in it.
Thing about the beergarden ties into what I was doing popping people with cold spells as a DM while they all frolicked around the campfire south of Norwick. This is NARFELL folks… bitter cold northern block-o-ice place. I was always for making the Boarshead a gateway to the south by having it half out of the town and half in with walls butting up to both sides of the building. Walk in one door in-town... through the main hall... and out into a walled area and with a gate and a tower to the south.
Then pop up a random low saving through versus cold damage outside (EVERYWHERE!!). Sell fur cloaks that allow you to ignore the saves, but give a DEX penalty for encumbering the wearer. Perhaps give being inside give a increased rate of healing. Or make it so that you had to spend a certain amount of time indoors, to reduce a slowly stacking penalty on your saves to the outside cold script? Not sure, but the idea of outdoor beer garden kind of goes contrary to the idea I always had in my head of the Narfell region and Norwick being the kind of place like Indiana Jones found Marion in in Siberia in the Raiders of the Lost Ark.
If there was anyway to regionalize yells, that would be great. Then you wouldn't have the problem of being inside and not knowing something big was going on right outside of a building.
My 2¢
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@6ab3d40932=Clan:
riiiight… because militaristic frontier towns and black markets and corruption have nothing to do with each other…
"Gray" Market might be more apropos for a lot of goods in Norwick that would be "Black" Market goods in Peltarch or Jiyyd.
The Norwick government may not concern itself with banning all the goods that might be illegal elsewhere (or with enforcing such a ban if it were in place) …so long as the appropriate people were paid, of course.
That said, there would almost certainly still be a "Black" Market in Norwick also - with goods that the Norwick government is serious about not wanting sold there.
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I didn't mean it in an offensive way Dwin
And I'm always open to people telling me I'm wrong for a reason, instead of just pointing at something else to do their job for them.
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riiiight… because militaristic frontier towns and black markets and corruption have nothing to do with each other…
riiiiiiiight....
before you go calling peoples ideas "silly" make sure you can back that up, buddy.
Dwin points M_O_B to his local library
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I always thought of Norwick as a very militaristic frontier-town.
So maybe some things to reflect that, instead of silly black market ideas and whatnot, which belong in cities, not in small towns where everyone knows everyone
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…except that we are halfway done rebuilding it.
Maybe Jiyyd will have to be the ancient ruins instead, once the orcs wake up.
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@4beddac164=Fraoch:
In order to move the increasingly smaller server population together, could avoid rebuilding it.
Hmm…an interesting thought....The Ruins of Norwick, inhabited by a mixture of goblins and undead from the crypts, and beyond that a mixture of bugbear soldiers and goblins, and beyond that even more bugbears and saurials. It could add an interesting new fly to the mixture, with perhaps the Keep and Temple of Kelemvor standing as a new outpost against the woods and its inhabitants. Definitely food for thought.
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In order to move the increasingly smaller server population together, could avoid rebuilding it.
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heh, great minds think alike… from page 1:
@b1e4e4de6f=Clan:
Anyone ever watch Deadwood on HBO?
IMO, that is exactly what i want Norwick to be like, all things being equal.
@b1e4e4de6f=strepsiades:
Speaking as someone who only visits, Norwick has long seemed to me like Deadwood in the HBO series.
I also think that Nightsblood is right about getting crowds in the inn - if you want it to be full, you need to put it somewhere that will have a lot of traffic.
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Speaking as someone who only visits, Norwick has long seemed to me like Deadwood in the HBO series.
I also think that Nightsblood is right about getting crowds in the inn - if you want it to be full, you need to put it somewhere that will have a lot of traffic.
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Much as I like the biergarten idea all it really is, is the 'old' campfire which doesn't really bring life and patronage to the inn per se.
(Don't get me wrong, I loved the old southfire. It was my favourite place to gather).The only way to ensure patronage of the inn is to have it act as a gatehouse (a choke point where people must pass through to enter the Rawlins). The ground floor could be the passage to the Gates overlooked by a balcony which would be the tavern part of the inn proper. These could be separated by reinforced doors (transitions) in times of trouble. Like the stage area of The Peltarch theatre you can see the stage but are seperate from it without transitioning.
The idea is that folks would sit on the balcony with drinks watching the comings and goings through the Rawlins and Norwick gates. If they saw something of interest pass beneath a quick word would be enough to verify or arrange accompanyment. A short transition down could then see them join up and head out.
It also means archers have a killing zone from the balcony covering both the gate to the Rawlins and the Gate to Norwick yet are protected from enemy fire from the Rawlins itself.
Seperate entrances (from the main gates) mean they can retreat into Norwick (or maybe even the ramparts if needed to fire into the Rawlins) if the balcony is stormed.
The only drawback would be that they can't actually see what's happening in Norwick or the Rawlins…which is realistic.
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i think all of this input is really valuable as Lucid, Damien, myself and a few others sit down IC (as Scutum mentioned) to continue planning this all out. we've made some decisions already which you'll see, but there have been some other really good ideas here as well.
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If the town (and by this I mean mostly Dwin and Lucid IC) want to restrict access to the Rawlins from the pass, I think it is their perogative to do so. Now, if we as a development community want to guarantee access to the Rawlins for all players, we can do that… just differently. Say, a winding (and much more dangerous) trail from the old Featherflight area (or somewhere nearby) to someplace on the graveyard map, or the far east wood or something. If Norwick sees the Rawlins as a natural resource that is to be coveted, I would expect them to take measures to put themselves into a position where access to that resource is controlled.
I like the biergarten idea (provided NPC count is low).
I imagine most towns have some black market of one kind or another. I just think that who controlls that market varies from town to town. If Fenz or the Sails or Nico control it in Peltarch, maybe they have to work with the Dolvaks in Norwick, or with Horgan (or whomever) in the Camp, etc. It's a question of who gets their cut. The fun of Peltarch is trying to muscle out or merge with the competition, wheras in Norwick maybe some fun plots could be run trying to get a toehold there (as I think one group was doing).
