OOC - Information Needed
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@9918c50413=Sterling:
However, to make an argument when people know ooc that Legion members were not logged on is(…)
In summary: That line of argument is extremely unfair.
I fail to see where an IC response to in game events DM'ed by 2-3 DM's, and witnessed by DM's with targetted parties present, is unfair.
The fact that some here immediately start to think that this is nothing else than just an OOC punch, is very demeaning tbh, both towards the players involved and DM's, who have already for a long time worked behind the scenes to set a series of events in motion, for your enjoyment.
If you have further ooc issues with the thread regarding Legion/Helmites, take it up with me personally, or in the Legion's forums, not here. Anyone not belonging to the Legion, can keep that situation IC in these forums, please.
@9918c50413=Kuker:
I dont think the last 6 posts were what Shade had in mind for this thread…..well 7 including mine now.
Nope. But well, it does show a bit. I'll trust that from here on this thread is used for what it's meant to be.
((edits…. typos typos typos))
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Raryldor uses Jiyyd more as a place to find someplace quiet than anything; he is, at heart, a wanderer. He's been shiftless of late. His elven lover is long gone. He is trying to make enough sense of his surroundings, now, to actually do something about them, like he has in years before, but things are coming apart in his grasp after his unwilling tenure as a champion of Myrkul. He's fallen back on a strong moral compass and faith, but little is as crystal clear to him as it was before.
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@9b7bd5703b=Kuker:
I dont think the last 6 posts were what Shade had in mind for this thread…..well 7 including mine now.
Well technically Shade asked for reports from people with IC ranks or positions, we just took some liberties by assuming the purpose of that was to get a sense of what is going on in town in general. And when, if and how Legionnaires are involved in defending the town is part of that, isn't it?
EDIT:
I'd like to point out again and in more detail that Spellweaver owns the Emerald Tower located in the Silver Valley and all SWK members can use it as a start location (just request an Emerald Circle token from a DM). There isn't any particular activity that I'm aware of going on there, but I think we can safely assume that some SWK members spend a good portion of their time there, or have offices or living quarters there. Genzir divides his time between the tower, where he has a lot of books stashed, and the main Keep outside of Norwick.
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I dont think the last 6 posts were what Shade had in mind for this thread…..well 7 including mine now.
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oh that reminds me Legion NPC's have already been made and sent to the SDM… just yet to go ig...
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Of course you shouldn't pretend like the Legion was there for an attack when they weren't, but that's different from saying the Legion is generally, consistently negligent about guarding the town. Not that there's anything wrong with your IC comment, it's just not something the majority of townsfolk, etc. ought to be expressing.
Incidentally, it is also true that the Legion does not have any formal guard or militia duties in Jiyyd. That said…
@e2cd9a6d8f=Lagermane:
if the Legion is serious about standing guard on Jiyyd, pay a certain sum of gold every year for an NPC 'Troff Legion Soldier' at each gate. They can be there round the clock, which is what the players are saying is ICly the case, which will settle this. It doesn't have to be someone as formidable as the Norwick guards, just a visible presence.
-Lagermane
… I think this idea is also worth considering.
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@fd7846dbcd=Sterling:
In summary: That line of argument is extremely unfair.
Speaking as someone with no characters with Helmite ties or sympathies, and nothing against the Legion, here is an opposing view.
Granted people cannot be logged in 24/7. Granted the Legion is largely composed of PCs. Granted some Legion characters (Lyte comes to mind, I've seen her do this many times) do stand watch when on.
However, when my character is at the gates alone and orcs or whatever unpleasantness of the moment is charging them… I cannot go, "Hey, wait, ICly Grag and ten Legionfolk should be here to help me, can you please kill all the guys charging me to reflect this?" The DM would laugh their head off.
And when I live through that attack with three HP, and tell people about it afterwards, I am not going to go 'Oh, and the Legion was there, and saved my life!' when they did no such thing.
This certainly isn't the Legion's fault. It is a reflection of the fact that this is a recreation and not a job. But you're asking us to seriously edit our character's memories of what actually happened, who was actually there, and what conclusions we draw from it.
What I would suggest -- and I don't know if this is possible or not, just throwing this out -- if the Legion is serious about standing guard on Jiyyd, pay a certain sum of gold every year for an NPC 'Troff Legion Soldier' at each gate. They can be there round the clock, which is what the players are saying is ICly the case, which will settle this. It doesn't have to be someone as formidable as the Norwick guards, just a visible presence.
-Lagermane
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I like the polymorph idea… it has potential.
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I'm going to have to go with Sterling and Green on this one. Accusing the Legion of leaving the gates undefended is making IC hay out of an OOC necessity. The players can't be logged in 24/7. Many Legionnaires live in Jiyyd, and the ones that don't have guild offices in Jiyyd. Not only the Legion Hall but also the Emerald Tower, for Spellweaver members. If they were logged in, they would go rushing out of their homes to defend the town. Nobody should ICly accuse the Legion of leaving the gates undefended unless they are either deliberately lying or exaggerating, or IC-ly ignorant.
If we want to give the Legion a proper IC chance to defend the town, why don't we work on ICly setting up a better reconnaissance and warning system.
This could include mages who take turns polymorphing into hawks or other birds with keen eyesight that can see for miles (much farther than the range of Detect Magic or Dispel Magic). These scouts could look over the walls of the orc fortress to check for a build-up of their forces. I know of 4 mages in the Legion that can do this. Druids could do this as well. Depending on how long it takes the orcs to build up an attack force, periodic scans of the fortress would be enough to give us some advance warning before an attack. Building a very tall watchtower on the southern hill would help as well (of course you couldn't see into the fortress, but maybe you could tell if lots of orcs are coming out of the gates).
OOCly we could either schedule gate attacks in advance or just send out a shout like we do with Norwick gate attacks.
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Seriously… I think that a lot of the "IC point of view surrounding the Legion" as it pertains to Jiyyd is simply an attempt to use the IG clock against OOC player life/commitment.
If one were to go by the game clock, then yes one could argue that there have been lapses in time when town attacks have occurred and not a single Legion member stood post to stem the slaughter.
However, to make an argument when people know ooc that Legion members were not logged on is a huge slap in the face to those players who have committed countless hours of game time establishing their commitment to the town through years of IC actions from their characters.
It's an IC power grab… I can see that. But, like Lyte, my character can't comprehend where the argument against the Legion is coming from, since IC he knows how many hours he's spent at the gate, on the tower, on patrol, ect... and certainly knows the same about his fellow legion members and leadership.
In summary: That line of argument is extremely unfair.
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That is exactly what this thread is meant for Lyte. Communication
We can do only so much and know only so much of what is happening around.Just to make things clear and avoid any confusion to everyone:
I am still PC'ing as well, and will remain to do so. So if a post in this forum is meant IC, as a reaction of any of my PC's, I'll make sure that there can be no confusion. In any other case, my posts are meant as DM, concerning Jiyyd. If there is any confusion, don't hesitate at all to ask. As well, what several factions in game may do or think, does not mean my PC's do or think alike. It's RP after all.
Thanks for all the input so far
I've received quite a lot already, so I'm happy.
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Both Grag and Gobbletom have asked Lyte to Captain the new Militia. She told Gobbletom she would accept the positon, which is completely seperate from her Legion duties, according to Gobbletom. She has not asked for, nor wants, any pay.
She is very confused on the Helmite issue, and where they fit into this.
Each and every time Lyte logs on, she spends some of her time RPing guarding Jiyyd's gate. She has done this for at least a year and a half, virtually every day, except for RL vacations and deaths.
This makes the complaints of the Helmites about the Legion guarding the gates, to her, out and out lies, which concerns her greatly. While none of us are on all the time, as Dms and players, the Legion as a guild spends as much time in guarding gates as any Guild in Narfell, so, while I think it's perfectly fair for evilers to knock the Legion all they like, I should think the Legion itself would have an extremely strong reputation, after all these years, with the npc townsfolk in and around Jiyyd.
Lyte is second in command in the Legion. She is not a real hard ass sort of leader, and is generally reasonable and charismatic. She tends to do the day to day paperwork and writes good copy, with a decent sense of dealing with people's personalities.
Lyte spends most of her time in and around Jiyyd, attending to her Legion duties. She is quite friendly with Vroka, and she has done some part time seamstress work for the elves who run the tailor's shop. Lyte has always been extremely polite to everyone on the council, and, as far as I know, has no enemies in Jiyyd, being diplomatic and having a generally compassionate nature.
I think this thread is an excellant idea. Often Dm's and players are thinking along different lines, and bump heads misunderstanding where things are going, or what things have been accomplished in the past. Maybe this will help get everyone on the same page, as I have felt somewhat lost of late.
