Losing my mind trying to think of a new ranged character
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I want to make a new character, and I want to make them a ranged character. Feel free to discuss.
For the longest time, I have made characters that work well, but I always had placed inhibitors and limits on them that deny them greater potential. (Mooncandy for example, if she was human, she'd have the exact same base stats +2 extra feats since she wouldn't need exotic weapon prof, and gets +4 int so I could expertise and improve expertise)
I have retired a level 10 character to do so.
Now, I don't know what to do, I have many ideas circling in my head:
1. Pure cleric archer. - Clerics in narfell are god, and can do everything, you get point blank shot, rapid shot, empower spell, weapon focus martial, improved crit, and zen archery, and you're set. You can enchant your own gear, you can cast GMW on your arrows, prayer, etc all that fancy stuff, and you will hit for 15-20+ damage arrows and destroy face.
Oversaturation of Narfell cleric population… bleh.
My issue: Too many goddamn clerics on narfell, and they poop on everything. Often dms increase the difficulty of encounters just to reflect this. Also, I have never been a fan of pure spell casters except for Maki since I'm terrible at prepping magic. I feel a sense of overwhelming guilt if I'm selfish with cleric spells since I know I could make people on my team with some buffs just as strong as me, but in turn denying me my own power.
2. ClericX/Fighter4; Divine might archer/axe thrower: feats include power attack, weapon focus, point blank shot, rapid shot, weapon specialization, divine might, extra turning. Build would be something around 13 13 10 10 (int) 16 (wis) (14) charisma, base. This build gives more HP, gives you still access to good amount of cleric spells, and can give you discipline with the fighter feats. Plus self casting empowered charisma allows you for a +3/+5 bonus damage for 3-5 rounds, which is good. At level 13 this build shines. You can also become a temporary monster in melee as well.
Still somewhat contribute to clerical oversaturation, but at least you can play around with something that allows you to have a lot of options.
3. Cleric 4/Fighter X (clericy-tank)/Ranger 1
My third and last clerical archer idea, THIS build focuses on divine shield, divine might, ranged combat, and if you so desire, you can be fairly effective in melee. Good stats would be: 14 str, 16 dex, 10 con, 12 wis, 14 int, 14 charisma. This build would allow for mild sustain with cure light wounds, allow you to self buff regular cats grace and eagle's splendor, and you can still maul things with divine might + bow. You will also be able to be a defensive prodigy with the int, being able to forfeit the archer role and become the high AC tank role. You can still point blank shot, rapid shot, and so forth. Take ranger at 12 for tumble +3 AC cheese.
4. Pure ranger archer:
Allows you to self enchant, and at much higher levels you do quite well against favored enemy. Very item reliant though. I've seen 2 rangers really make it work, but otherwise it seems a bit weak. In a party though you improve quite a bit.
The negatives that come to mind for me though is that this is a very long term investment, and the curve starts off really shallow until you get to level 8+,
5. Ranger/fighter 4 hybrid:
You get the benefit of extra feats to significantly enhance your output, and at level 13 you're arguably more powerful than just a straight on ranger for damage, plus extra feats to play around with, including the potential to be a dual wielding monster once your ranger hits 9+ and you have weapon expertise in both ranged and melee
6. Bard X fighter 4:
Help allies quite a bit, bardsong buff allies, cats grace yourself, bulls strength yourself. Disadvantage I feel to this is you become fairly fragile, and your attack bonus lacks.
7. Fighter X bard 4:
You get one level 2 bard spell a day (cats!) you can cast out of 2 you can choose, a couple of level 1 bard spells, nice bard song to give you +1 ab and +2 damage to you and your allies, and lots of feats! You could potentially become a decent melee warrior with this as well, though you might fall a little short compared to others.
8. Rogue 7 Fighter x: Tons of sneak attack damage, this build really shines at level 13. Only real issue is, compared to other builds, you'll be hurting for buffs due to no magic casting. On the plus side, weapon specialization + 14-16 strength non buffed + sneak attack flanking, as long as enemies aren't too hard to hit, you're going to give a lot of hurt. (oh, you gotta be near enemies by the way!)
9. Rogue 3 Fighter x: Standard rogue cheese build, you can become a good melee warrior as well as an archer... but I've done this before and as easy as it is to fall on familiar grounds I want to try something new and do well.
My choices of characters I want to make are as follows:
I want a halfling ranged monster
I want a dwarven axe thrower
I want an elven archer
Human cleric archer
I want a scary crossbow user or axe thrower if I can do these possibly... problem with axe throwers is they require so much damn strength it isn't practical unless you find a bag of holding 20% or lower.Anywho, these are my ideas, feel free to discuss.
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I have no clue what happened there O.o
DM EDIT: Fixed by DM Skippy. Nothing to see here, move along…
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Without thinking much on it….
Ranger 8 fighter 4.
Cool stuff: Evasion, tumble, toughness, cats grace, camoumuflage, weapon spec, rapid shot (with pointblank ofc), familiar, stealth, decent skill points.
Roughly at 12 with items:
AB: 12(BAB)+6(base dex)+2(Cats grace)+1(Weapon focus)+2(Bow +2)
= +21/+16/+11 -----> +19/+14/+9/+19 with rapid shot.
Damage: 1-8+4(str with potion)+2(weapon spec)+2 (only to your fav enemies)
= 7-14 (+whatever your favoured enemy is)
HP: 130~
etc...
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Gonnar, I dunno, was just an idea.
At level 15-16 it would be a nice build but sadly I doub I'll ever get that far.
Back to the drawing board maybe.
I don't know what to do Q_Q
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@f48bd1cf1b=Gonnar:
Low hp, low ac, low damage = not really good. That sums up my opinion on the build, pvP/pvM wise.
While I wouldn't worry too much about the low HP and AC (you're an archer), the low damage may be an issue. I noticed that you eventually take called shot which is cool. As long as you're happy for someone else to be doing the big damage you should be okay. So instead of dealing damage you're essentially anti-buffing the enemies. So you'll be saving the arse of your tank.
@f48bd1cf1b:
I thought of getting finesse earlier and waiting on weapon focus longbow. Not sure yet.
Earlier your DEX is 18 and your STR is 17 Even with dex boosting items there isn't much difference in your stats. So wpn finesse won't really be providing much of an advantage. I think at lower levels you'll want to be avoiding melee anyway.
The Weapon Focus feat will help with the Called Shot. Called Shot puts a -4 penalty on your to hit roll, and your to hit roll is used as the DC to resist the effect. So you want your AB as high as you can get it. Without fighter BAB you'll be hard pressed to get those called shots to hit so every little bonus is going to count.
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Low hp, low ac, low damage = not really good. That sums up my opinion on the build, pvP/pvM wise.
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NSW. Once 13 It will probably be fighter upon reflection since I want weapon finesse and there is no go in back.
I thought of getting finesse earlier and waiting on weapon focus longbow. Not sure yet.
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I love it.
I wouldn't worry too much about your low AC. One thing I noticed when playing Marty was that if you avoid close combat you're AC isn't as important. (famous last words)
One great thing about being an archer monk is that you have good mobility with monk speed. I think you'll find that this will be your salvation often. The ability to quickly put yourself where you're needed and to bolt away from trouble is exactly what you need if you're planning on being an effective "gunship"
I think using a bow will mess with your deflect arrows ability. In PnP you may be able to get away with it if you didn't have an arrow notched, but in NWN I'm pretty sure the bow counts as a two handed weapon, thus negating the feat. I think that even using shurikens, darts and slings negate deflect arrows. Logically you still have the required hand free with these weapons but the machine counts them as two handed. Not too much of a problem. Just try to take out archers and spell casters first and be smart about the use of cover.
Being a monk does mean you have restrictions on multiclassing based on which order you follow. If you plan to bail on your order so you can multiclass then you have no restrictions, but if you're planning to remain consistent and RP your order through you may want to consider the Order of the Yellow Rose. This order of Illmater worshiping monks allows multiclassing into Ranger. They also have their main monastery not too far away from Narfell, up near the Great Glacier. I think the ranger multiclassing for this order is intended to give the order a St Francis of Assisi flavor? He preached to animals.
There are other orders that allow multiclassing into fighter and ranger.
Froo posted the multiclass list by orders from the wiki. Worth checking out.
Multiclass list for monks.
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So I decided to make a monk, I was curious what people would think about this build.
Wood Elf, Monk Archer
Starting stats:
17 str 18 dex 10 con 12 wis 10 int 6 charisma (there's a very good rp hook I got for this being so low, anyway…)
So, with my retirement package, I can get 3 +dex items. Ideally, by level 12:
Level 1 feat: point blank shot
Level 3 feat: weapon focus long bow
Level 6 feat: called shot
Level 9 feat: rapid shot
Level 12 feat: Improved crit longbowBase attack bonus by level 12 = 8
Attack bonus from 24 dex = 7
Attack bonus from long bow (hopefully +2) - 2
Attack bonus from weapon focus = +1So total attack bonus at level 12 = 18 (with +1 from point blank shot)
It isn't too shabby.
Total AC from this build would equal: 20 base by 12 prior to items, this hurts a bit
Move speed will be amazing. This character will also be a canvas for buffs.
At level 13+, will start taking levels of Fighter or Ranger
What do you guys think?
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@71c826e877=Mooncandies:
You make axes 80%-90% lighter and I'll do it.
Darts are almost as good as axes (1d4 vs 1d6), weigh less, and look pretty sexy.
The hard thing about being a thrower is that you have to be both strong and dexterous for it to really work. That usually means your points aren't going to be anywhere near your mental stats. So prepare to RP Mr dopey-no-friends. In my early days of Narf I made a halforc axe thrower. A DM made me rebuild her because she was "mini-maxed" and that her low mental and social stats would make her too stupid to play as a character.
Her low mental stats actually made her heaps of fun to play as a character, but it was sometimes painful to deliberately miss plot points because she wouldn't have been smart enough to pick up on them.@71c826e877:
I had always assumed it was 15 feet, as there aren't any bug reports in the wiki either (when something doesn't work as intended it's usually pointed out in there).
Yeah, 15 feet is 5 meters. 30 feet is 10 meters.
Being 5meters/15feet away from a monster means that an attack of op is just a shuffle away. But +1 attack and damage is pretty sweet. You just need to ask yourself if its worth the risk. If there's a bit of lag on the server the monster you're PBing will have taken a couple of bites out of you before you realize he has changed targets. The great thing about being an archer is that you can inflict your pain while being far away from the place where it can be inflicted upon you. If that's your thing then you can probably live without PB shot. Rapid shot is pretty sweet, but if you're not a ranger or a fighter or seriously buffed and geared up it may not work out so well for you. So if you're not going to go for rapid shot you can live without PB. But if you're a fighter or ranger they're both cool to have.
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You make axes 80%-90% lighter and I'll do it.
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@f3d98a260b=Gonnar:
@f3d98a260b=Emerwyn:
We're gonna derail this!
According the wiki:
@f3d98a260b:
Type of feat: General
Prerequisite: None
Required for: Rapid Shot, Arcane Archer
Specifics: A character with this feat negates the -4 penalty for using missile weapons in melee, and gains an additional +1 to attack roll and damage with ranged weapons when the target is within 15 feet.I had always assumed it was 15 feet, as there aren't any bug reports in the wiki either (when something doesn't work as intended it's usually pointed out in there).
Sneak Attack works up to 30 feet.
Yes, that's correct. It's been some time since I last played NWN so I messed up everything in my head. PBS is 15 and SA is 30 feet, I dont know where I got my stupidily innacurate numbers, but I actualy meant to say what Emer said.
Probably because 15 feet equal 5 meters roughly, and you're used to using the nice and orderly metric system unlike these American weirdos.
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@8ba9b3bf5d=Emerwyn:
We're gonna derail this!
According the wiki:
@8ba9b3bf5d:
Type of feat: General
Prerequisite: None
Required for: Rapid Shot, Arcane Archer
Specifics: A character with this feat negates the -4 penalty for using missile weapons in melee, and gains an additional +1 to attack roll and damage with ranged weapons when the target is within 15 feet.I had always assumed it was 15 feet, as there aren't any bug reports in the wiki either (when something doesn't work as intended it's usually pointed out in there).
Sneak Attack works up to 30 feet.
Yes, that's correct. It's been some time since I last played NWN so I messed up everything in my head. PBS is 15 and SA is 30 feet, I dont know where I got my stupidily innacurate numbers, but I actualy meant to say what Emer said.
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I vote for Bard/Barbarian axe hurler.
starts goofing around with throwing axe base weight code
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We're gonna derail this!
According the wiki:
@b1130368ce:
Type of feat: General
Prerequisite: None
Required for: Rapid Shot, Arcane Archer
Specifics: A character with this feat negates the -4 penalty for using missile weapons in melee, and gains an additional +1 to attack roll and damage with ranged weapons when the target is within 15 feet.I had always assumed it was 15 feet, as there aren't any bug reports in the wiki either (when something doesn't work as intended it's usually pointed out in there).
Sneak Attack works up to 30 feet.
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PBS is 5feet, Sneak attack is 15 feet.
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@b8dc10e050=Fraoch:
PBS applies anytime you're in sneak attack range - you really do not have to be that close.
I got so excited when you said this! I tested it out though. Turns out you do have to be closer.
The "X" closet to the dummy is where PB shot +1 AB and damage kicks in. The second "X" from the dummy is where Sneak Attack kicks in. About half way between the 1st X and the dummy is where you start getting smacked. The "X"s are 5ms apart.
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It's matter of taste. I say succeeding in Narfell is matter of survivability, and the best build in my mind is not the one that does most damage, is the one that adapts best to any hazards. I've got two characters sitting at very high level that have never seen the Fugue (or well, one of them did see the Fugue once, but it was inevitable :P), and I've refused time after time to give up on defensive abilities just to get some extra damage. It's worked out for me, but that's not necessarily what works out for others.
What's bad with bard? That at level 10 bard you'll have 50 HP. At level 10 Fighter you'll have 110 (Same as Gonnar's Dex comparison, I'm assuming here 10 Con for both characters - and that as Human Fighter you can easily afford Toughness feat, while as elven bard you can't, and you have -2 Con). That's over double the HP. Nothing hurts as badly as being level 10+ and getting one-shot to the Fugue by anything of around your level that wields a x3 multiplier weapon. I've seen Meril go through this with my own eyes at his level 14 or so, and it sucks big time. Ogre Berserker presents you the amazing world of spending another year climbing back that level you hard-earned with your squishy bard ass.
As Fighter you also toss a Full Plate into the equation, and with one level of rogue for the Tumble you're set. The buffs? That's what potions are for! I did say the Fighter build is reliant on not being a cheap-ass with consumables.
Good thing of bard is you do get your +3 Weapon as well. That's a big plus actually. And you get a nice Bardsong to boost your whole party, which is also really nice. Fighter will have feats to take whatever you ever want. Can even get +2 to saving throws or Resist Energy feats to increase survivability even further.
As said, matter of taste! Of course, one may enjoy more the Ranger RP, or the Bard RP and stuff. That's fine. I assume that whatever character you make, you're giving it a solid RP background and you intend to RP your heart out with it, otherwise you'd be playing in an Action server, not here - for that reason I'm not factoring the RP in.
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An elven bard will have same AB than a pure fighter with a bow.
With a Dex of +0 (to make maths easy) you have at level 10 with a pure fighter:+10BAB +0dex = +10AB
with a bard you have:
+7BAB+2dex/+3dex(buff)+1bardsong = +10AB
Why take bard over fighter? Skillpoints.
Aiming to a real build at lvl 12, which is not really hard to reach nowadays, and i'll give it +1items:
Fighter level 12 archer with base 18dex:
AB: +17 (3apr)
AC: 27 with full plate +shield+all +1items
Damage: 1-8+4 (+2str +2weapon spec)Level 12 bard archer with base 18 dex:
AB: +14 (2apr) -> +16/+17 (cats grace) -> +18/+19 (bardsong) -> +20/+21 warcry-> +22/+23 (curse song on your enemies)
AC: 30 with full plate+shield+all +1 items –> +32 with bardsong
Damage: 1-8+4(str cause you have bulls)+2bardsong +2 warcry
In short, the bard version is just better because it's more versatile.
If you don't like bards, then go Ranger over fighter. Rangers have buffs, evasion and toughness, an animal companion and more skill points and tumble too. GET IT.
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Assuming you mean my elven ranger, she was built for AA and for a long time was pure archer. It was only at level 13 that I finally added expertise to the mix out of embarrassment at having to hide beind PCs half her level - that along with looking for other ways to increase her armour class.
Had IE briefly, soon died because of it. Your average ranger quite frankly doesn't have the saves/discipline to be a tank that their party can rely on.
Mine is a dex-based character with archery feats who lacks weapon finesse. Archer, not melee. When tanking it is out of necessity. Normally down to (a) they're more capable of it than others in the party (b) They're considerably higher in level/hit points than the others
It's laggy or there's a high chance of losing control of your character.Edit: Never mind. I think you meant Lanakai's one who was indeed built for melee.
Rangers are fun. Stealth is great, detect is great. Tracking rocks. PBS applies anytime you're in sneak attack range - you really do not have to be that close. Rapid Shot is fabulous - four attacks a round at level 11? Yes please! I remember the first time I saw two attacks in the first flurry. It was Cotton, in the Rawlins, with a bow, and it was highly impressive
I don't dispute that self-buffing cleric makes the best archer, but I love the versatility you get with a ranger archer.
Eluriel isn't pure, but she has 11 ranger levels. And there's certainly days when I feel she's a 'monster' because of her versatility.
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@1e62fb7173=Mooncandies:
what ye said
Gear reliant. Heavily gear reliant, the bow is pure victory.
