Losing my mind trying to think of a new ranged character
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Without thinking much on it….
Ranger 8 fighter 4.
Cool stuff: Evasion, tumble, toughness, cats grace, camoumuflage, weapon spec, rapid shot (with pointblank ofc), familiar, stealth, decent skill points.
Roughly at 12 with items:
AB: 12(BAB)+6(base dex)+2(Cats grace)+1(Weapon focus)+2(Bow +2)
= +21/+16/+11 -----> +19/+14/+9/+19 with rapid shot.
Damage: 1-8+4(str with potion)+2(weapon spec)+2 (only to your fav enemies)
= 7-14 (+whatever your favoured enemy is)
HP: 130~
etc...
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Gonnar, I dunno, was just an idea.
At level 15-16 it would be a nice build but sadly I doub I'll ever get that far.
Back to the drawing board maybe.
I don't know what to do Q_Q
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@f48bd1cf1b=Gonnar:
Low hp, low ac, low damage = not really good. That sums up my opinion on the build, pvP/pvM wise.
While I wouldn't worry too much about the low HP and AC (you're an archer), the low damage may be an issue. I noticed that you eventually take called shot which is cool. As long as you're happy for someone else to be doing the big damage you should be okay. So instead of dealing damage you're essentially anti-buffing the enemies. So you'll be saving the arse of your tank.
@f48bd1cf1b:
I thought of getting finesse earlier and waiting on weapon focus longbow. Not sure yet.
Earlier your DEX is 18 and your STR is 17 Even with dex boosting items there isn't much difference in your stats. So wpn finesse won't really be providing much of an advantage. I think at lower levels you'll want to be avoiding melee anyway.
The Weapon Focus feat will help with the Called Shot. Called Shot puts a -4 penalty on your to hit roll, and your to hit roll is used as the DC to resist the effect. So you want your AB as high as you can get it. Without fighter BAB you'll be hard pressed to get those called shots to hit so every little bonus is going to count.
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Low hp, low ac, low damage = not really good. That sums up my opinion on the build, pvP/pvM wise.
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NSW. Once 13 It will probably be fighter upon reflection since I want weapon finesse and there is no go in back.
I thought of getting finesse earlier and waiting on weapon focus longbow. Not sure yet.
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I love it.
I wouldn't worry too much about your low AC. One thing I noticed when playing Marty was that if you avoid close combat you're AC isn't as important. (famous last words)
One great thing about being an archer monk is that you have good mobility with monk speed. I think you'll find that this will be your salvation often. The ability to quickly put yourself where you're needed and to bolt away from trouble is exactly what you need if you're planning on being an effective "gunship"
I think using a bow will mess with your deflect arrows ability. In PnP you may be able to get away with it if you didn't have an arrow notched, but in NWN I'm pretty sure the bow counts as a two handed weapon, thus negating the feat. I think that even using shurikens, darts and slings negate deflect arrows. Logically you still have the required hand free with these weapons but the machine counts them as two handed. Not too much of a problem. Just try to take out archers and spell casters first and be smart about the use of cover.
Being a monk does mean you have restrictions on multiclassing based on which order you follow. If you plan to bail on your order so you can multiclass then you have no restrictions, but if you're planning to remain consistent and RP your order through you may want to consider the Order of the Yellow Rose. This order of Illmater worshiping monks allows multiclassing into Ranger. They also have their main monastery not too far away from Narfell, up near the Great Glacier. I think the ranger multiclassing for this order is intended to give the order a St Francis of Assisi flavor? He preached to animals.
There are other orders that allow multiclassing into fighter and ranger.
Froo posted the multiclass list by orders from the wiki. Worth checking out.
Multiclass list for monks.
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So I decided to make a monk, I was curious what people would think about this build.
Wood Elf, Monk Archer
Starting stats:
17 str 18 dex 10 con 12 wis 10 int 6 charisma (there's a very good rp hook I got for this being so low, anyway…)
So, with my retirement package, I can get 3 +dex items. Ideally, by level 12:
Level 1 feat: point blank shot
Level 3 feat: weapon focus long bow
Level 6 feat: called shot
Level 9 feat: rapid shot
Level 12 feat: Improved crit longbowBase attack bonus by level 12 = 8
Attack bonus from 24 dex = 7
Attack bonus from long bow (hopefully +2) - 2
Attack bonus from weapon focus = +1So total attack bonus at level 12 = 18 (with +1 from point blank shot)
It isn't too shabby.
Total AC from this build would equal: 20 base by 12 prior to items, this hurts a bit
Move speed will be amazing. This character will also be a canvas for buffs.
At level 13+, will start taking levels of Fighter or Ranger
What do you guys think?
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@71c826e877=Mooncandies:
You make axes 80%-90% lighter and I'll do it.
Darts are almost as good as axes (1d4 vs 1d6), weigh less, and look pretty sexy.
The hard thing about being a thrower is that you have to be both strong and dexterous for it to really work. That usually means your points aren't going to be anywhere near your mental stats. So prepare to RP Mr dopey-no-friends. In my early days of Narf I made a halforc axe thrower. A DM made me rebuild her because she was "mini-maxed" and that her low mental and social stats would make her too stupid to play as a character.
Her low mental stats actually made her heaps of fun to play as a character, but it was sometimes painful to deliberately miss plot points because she wouldn't have been smart enough to pick up on them.@71c826e877:
I had always assumed it was 15 feet, as there aren't any bug reports in the wiki either (when something doesn't work as intended it's usually pointed out in there).
Yeah, 15 feet is 5 meters. 30 feet is 10 meters.
Being 5meters/15feet away from a monster means that an attack of op is just a shuffle away. But +1 attack and damage is pretty sweet. You just need to ask yourself if its worth the risk. If there's a bit of lag on the server the monster you're PBing will have taken a couple of bites out of you before you realize he has changed targets. The great thing about being an archer is that you can inflict your pain while being far away from the place where it can be inflicted upon you. If that's your thing then you can probably live without PB shot. Rapid shot is pretty sweet, but if you're not a ranger or a fighter or seriously buffed and geared up it may not work out so well for you. So if you're not going to go for rapid shot you can live without PB. But if you're a fighter or ranger they're both cool to have.
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You make axes 80%-90% lighter and I'll do it.
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@f3d98a260b=Gonnar:
@f3d98a260b=Emerwyn:
We're gonna derail this!
According the wiki:
@f3d98a260b:
Type of feat: General
Prerequisite: None
Required for: Rapid Shot, Arcane Archer
Specifics: A character with this feat negates the -4 penalty for using missile weapons in melee, and gains an additional +1 to attack roll and damage with ranged weapons when the target is within 15 feet.I had always assumed it was 15 feet, as there aren't any bug reports in the wiki either (when something doesn't work as intended it's usually pointed out in there).
Sneak Attack works up to 30 feet.
Yes, that's correct. It's been some time since I last played NWN so I messed up everything in my head. PBS is 15 and SA is 30 feet, I dont know where I got my stupidily innacurate numbers, but I actualy meant to say what Emer said.
Probably because 15 feet equal 5 meters roughly, and you're used to using the nice and orderly metric system unlike these American weirdos.
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@8ba9b3bf5d=Emerwyn:
We're gonna derail this!
According the wiki:
@8ba9b3bf5d:
Type of feat: General
Prerequisite: None
Required for: Rapid Shot, Arcane Archer
Specifics: A character with this feat negates the -4 penalty for using missile weapons in melee, and gains an additional +1 to attack roll and damage with ranged weapons when the target is within 15 feet.I had always assumed it was 15 feet, as there aren't any bug reports in the wiki either (when something doesn't work as intended it's usually pointed out in there).
Sneak Attack works up to 30 feet.
Yes, that's correct. It's been some time since I last played NWN so I messed up everything in my head. PBS is 15 and SA is 30 feet, I dont know where I got my stupidily innacurate numbers, but I actualy meant to say what Emer said.
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I vote for Bard/Barbarian axe hurler.
starts goofing around with throwing axe base weight code
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We're gonna derail this!
According the wiki:
@b1130368ce:
Type of feat: General
Prerequisite: None
Required for: Rapid Shot, Arcane Archer
Specifics: A character with this feat negates the -4 penalty for using missile weapons in melee, and gains an additional +1 to attack roll and damage with ranged weapons when the target is within 15 feet.I had always assumed it was 15 feet, as there aren't any bug reports in the wiki either (when something doesn't work as intended it's usually pointed out in there).
Sneak Attack works up to 30 feet.
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PBS is 5feet, Sneak attack is 15 feet.
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@b8dc10e050=Fraoch:
PBS applies anytime you're in sneak attack range - you really do not have to be that close.
I got so excited when you said this! I tested it out though. Turns out you do have to be closer.
The "X" closet to the dummy is where PB shot +1 AB and damage kicks in. The second "X" from the dummy is where Sneak Attack kicks in. About half way between the 1st X and the dummy is where you start getting smacked. The "X"s are 5ms apart.
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It's matter of taste. I say succeeding in Narfell is matter of survivability, and the best build in my mind is not the one that does most damage, is the one that adapts best to any hazards. I've got two characters sitting at very high level that have never seen the Fugue (or well, one of them did see the Fugue once, but it was inevitable :P), and I've refused time after time to give up on defensive abilities just to get some extra damage. It's worked out for me, but that's not necessarily what works out for others.
What's bad with bard? That at level 10 bard you'll have 50 HP. At level 10 Fighter you'll have 110 (Same as Gonnar's Dex comparison, I'm assuming here 10 Con for both characters - and that as Human Fighter you can easily afford Toughness feat, while as elven bard you can't, and you have -2 Con). That's over double the HP. Nothing hurts as badly as being level 10+ and getting one-shot to the Fugue by anything of around your level that wields a x3 multiplier weapon. I've seen Meril go through this with my own eyes at his level 14 or so, and it sucks big time. Ogre Berserker presents you the amazing world of spending another year climbing back that level you hard-earned with your squishy bard ass.
As Fighter you also toss a Full Plate into the equation, and with one level of rogue for the Tumble you're set. The buffs? That's what potions are for! I did say the Fighter build is reliant on not being a cheap-ass with consumables.
Good thing of bard is you do get your +3 Weapon as well. That's a big plus actually. And you get a nice Bardsong to boost your whole party, which is also really nice. Fighter will have feats to take whatever you ever want. Can even get +2 to saving throws or Resist Energy feats to increase survivability even further.
As said, matter of taste! Of course, one may enjoy more the Ranger RP, or the Bard RP and stuff. That's fine. I assume that whatever character you make, you're giving it a solid RP background and you intend to RP your heart out with it, otherwise you'd be playing in an Action server, not here - for that reason I'm not factoring the RP in.
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An elven bard will have same AB than a pure fighter with a bow.
With a Dex of +0 (to make maths easy) you have at level 10 with a pure fighter:+10BAB +0dex = +10AB
with a bard you have:
+7BAB+2dex/+3dex(buff)+1bardsong = +10AB
Why take bard over fighter? Skillpoints.
Aiming to a real build at lvl 12, which is not really hard to reach nowadays, and i'll give it +1items:
Fighter level 12 archer with base 18dex:
AB: +17 (3apr)
AC: 27 with full plate +shield+all +1items
Damage: 1-8+4 (+2str +2weapon spec)Level 12 bard archer with base 18 dex:
AB: +14 (2apr) -> +16/+17 (cats grace) -> +18/+19 (bardsong) -> +20/+21 warcry-> +22/+23 (curse song on your enemies)
AC: 30 with full plate+shield+all +1 items –> +32 with bardsong
Damage: 1-8+4(str cause you have bulls)+2bardsong +2 warcry
In short, the bard version is just better because it's more versatile.
If you don't like bards, then go Ranger over fighter. Rangers have buffs, evasion and toughness, an animal companion and more skill points and tumble too. GET IT.
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Assuming you mean my elven ranger, she was built for AA and for a long time was pure archer. It was only at level 13 that I finally added expertise to the mix out of embarrassment at having to hide beind PCs half her level - that along with looking for other ways to increase her armour class.
Had IE briefly, soon died because of it. Your average ranger quite frankly doesn't have the saves/discipline to be a tank that their party can rely on.
Mine is a dex-based character with archery feats who lacks weapon finesse. Archer, not melee. When tanking it is out of necessity. Normally down to (a) they're more capable of it than others in the party (b) They're considerably higher in level/hit points than the others
It's laggy or there's a high chance of losing control of your character.Edit: Never mind. I think you meant Lanakai's one who was indeed built for melee.
Rangers are fun. Stealth is great, detect is great. Tracking rocks. PBS applies anytime you're in sneak attack range - you really do not have to be that close. Rapid Shot is fabulous - four attacks a round at level 11? Yes please! I remember the first time I saw two attacks in the first flurry. It was Cotton, in the Rawlins, with a bow, and it was highly impressive
I don't dispute that self-buffing cleric makes the best archer, but I love the versatility you get with a ranger archer.
Eluriel isn't pure, but she has 11 ranger levels. And there's certainly days when I feel she's a 'monster' because of her versatility.
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@1e62fb7173=Mooncandies:
what ye said
Gear reliant. Heavily gear reliant, the bow is pure victory.
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@01b38e0b5a=KingCreeper:
Masochist in me says build a pure Ranger. You'll regret not being a Cleric when you end up in DM events where your +2's don't count for diddly. Or simply walking through the Rawlins to encounter (pierce resistant monsters… pretty much all of them).
Gear is absolutely everything. A low STR score is going to affect your damage output anyway. The only feasible work-around would be to farm endlessly for GP so that you can afford magic arrows. Which most things you'd like to use them on are immune to those damage types thus rendering your archer almost entirely useless. And don't forget the strength bonus, you'll be next to worthless in melee and possibly need to carry a shield and heavier suit of armour for those close encounters.
The smart choice would be to go whichever combination allows you to buff most. Greater Magic Weapon is an absolute necessity. The irony is that by the time you have the spell there'll be nothing left to challenge you too much anyway. But hey, free self-buffs.
You got a slashing bow noob!
Well, yeah, seriously though I know what you mean. 3.5 rangers are amazing, 3.0 rangers are for the most part bunk unless you build them melee with expertise (one of the 'elven group' I remember tanked stuff in the UD like that)
I'm still a little lost on what I want.. but you all helped a lot with gettin the gears grinding and narrowing some stuff down.
