Hoarrans Outside Peltarch
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Cerena watches the exchange with a small frown, whispering a moment with Danielle, then looking over the map more closely. Soft words can be heard from her by anyone close…
A far reaching dream brother, far reaching and I fear unattainable…
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Perhaps you have never sailed a ship in to the Peltarch docks? Or tried to trade in arms or other things. You may not realize it as a mercenary, but trade is taxed my friend. No matter where you go. Do you truly believe that the walls of Peltarch were repaired on the donations and good will of those charitable individuals?
You should learn what it means to live in a village, city, or town. Not just claim you know what it takes to run such from a tower that was not even originally located where it is now. No matter how many times -you- say it, you are still patrolling a pass you only hold claim to by strength of arms. If nothing else THE same claim that I make.
You can not have it one way for yourself, and another for all else. Unaffiliating people when they choose to do something other then you wish, then welcoming them back with open arms when they've done the deed you find yourself wishing you'd done in the dark of night when trying to sleep. Your Legion is not a town. It's not an army. It's not the role model of good you would wish it to be. Not while it continues to perpetuate violence upon any who do not immediately bow, scrape, and swear to do your bidding.
Makes a dismissive motion with his hand as if warding against something, before turning to the Senators.
Your suggestion of my claims I find agreeable for now, Sentaor Thel. Let us focus then on the bridge that we have already rebuilt. We will continue to excise tolls until such time as that bridge has been paid for, then…
Looks to Ashald a moment.
…we will allow a guard contigent of no more then five Defenders take custody of and guard that bridge, while collecting tolls which shall be split with one quarter of the tolls to continue to the Camp, and three quarters to Peltarch. The Defenders will also be charged with confronting those who skirt the rightful excise of those tolls on wagons and horses by means of bypassing the bridge with meaningful trade, as befits those who would be known as smugglers. An additional three Defenders will be allowed to patrol that section to prevent smugglers from bypassing the rightful trade laws that will be agreed upon by my people and Peltarch's.
Would this be agreeable?
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@b088a3ef4a=LowerDenizen:
Honestly, to see such, your men would have to be there. Have you tried… not trespassing? You'd be surprised at how much the level of violence drops when -your- men are not around.
_Theaon frowns at Jonathan, as if it is he that does not get it
"This is where our problem lies then. No matter how many times you say it, you do not hold any claim to that passage south of the Legion Tower. Any time my troops were attack was because of your men entering the passage unprovoked when they had no business to. Anyone who has gone outside of that passage to attack your troops is not in any way affiliated with the Troff Legion.
As for your proposal to put a tax on trade that goes through the Nars, haven't both the representatives from Norwick and Peltarch made it clear the Pass must stay free to travel. That means no tolls, taxes, or fees.
Might I suggest a different method of helping your economy? Look at Norwick and Peltarch. They open their gates to people to buy and sell goods. Perhaps instead of closing yourself in the Gypsy Camp while unsuccessfully trying to toll and tax folks on the Nars Pass, you should try a more friendly approach by opening your gates. If your concerned about violence entering the Camp, then I also suggest a similar approach to that issue as Norwick and Peltarch do, and that is law enforcement."_
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Honestly, to see such, your men would have to be there. Have you tried… not trespassing? You'd be surprised at how much the level of violence drops when -your- men are not around.
Shakes his head as if this is a conversation he's had a million times and they still aren't getting it.
And no, Sir Dwarf. You'd be correct, once the trade is established we'd want open travel. It will not rely solely on tolls from bridges, but would be supplemented by proper taxing on the trade of goods.
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Dwin looks between Jonathan an Cerena with an all too familiar smirk.
Surely this new… City ... That your are building will not need to rely on travelers pocket-coins and a toll bridge for income, correct? As far as I know, "cities" such as the one yer proposin' thrive on travelers actually entering their walls and buying goods. Seems to me you'd want an open Nars, free of tolls or banditry more than any of us.
Unless, of course, yer idea of a city is different than mine, lad.
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@ef4b5c5097=LowerDenizen:
Jonathan never keeps his eyes off Cerena, the smile never leaving his lips, but certainly not reaching his eyes.
Again, Legionairre, you make that demand on current standings. Stop tipping us towards violence, and we will no longer be turning people away from the road unless absolutely necessary. Keep you violence away and there will be no need to answer it with such, and a side road so close and parallel to the main will no longer be necessary.
Would Peltarch be agreeable then to the league of land around the bridge we've already rebuilt?
_Theaon raises a brow at Jonathan
"I don't believe we are the ones tipping towards violence. We've seen your soldiers attack travellers unprovoked in that passage. We've asked time and time again that you stop doing that, but it goes ignored.
I suppose blocking that opening near the lake would be unnecessary if we could come to some sort of agreement. Obviously, as Dwin and Senator Ashald stated earlier, the Nars would have to remain free for folks to travel and trade between Norwick and Peltarch without tolls. If an agreement on this cannot be found, then I see no other alternative then to erect some sort of barrier in the opening to that passage - to prevent violence against both travellers and your soldiers."_
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Ashald:
"Many brave Defenders gave their lives against the forces of Atol to free the Nars Pass of banditry, which we all know and remember, was begun by Atol. With a toll. If upkeep of the bridge and road is your concern and reason for wishing to levy such…Norwick and Peltarch, as I understand, will be more than willing to undertake such upkeep ourselves, if the pass would then be kept free for travelers and traders."
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Is the bridge just a bridge? Or are you plannin' to collect a toll?
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Jonathan never keeps his eyes off Cerena, the smile never leaving his lips, but certainly not reaching his eyes.
Again, Legionairre, you make that demand on current standings. Stop tipping us towards violence, and we will no longer be turning people away from the road unless absolutely necessary. Keep you violence away and there will be no need to answer it with such, and a side road so close and parallel to the main will no longer be necessary.
Would Peltarch be agreeable then to the league of land around the bridge we've already rebuilt?
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@b48924ffa2=EodenValmer:
Therefore we are drawn to the next area of contention, namely the area of the Pass that doth hold the bridge and of course the source of Tolls upon travellers.
"I believe we should also keep in mind the passage just east that runs parallel with the bridge. The Legion has insisted that remain out of Hoaran claims for those who did not wish to use the bridge. The opening into that passage near the lake could be and should be blocked off for two reasons: the first being that there have been some fights between Hoarans and travellers near that opening. The second reason is so that anyone who feels the need to aimlessly slaughter Hoarans cannot simply run back through the passage and seek protection at the Legion Tower. I believe such a barrier would be beneficial to all parties."
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Methinks we shouldst move forward in a more constructive manner.
Forsooth one is most assured that we can each and every one agree the terms as laid out are preposterous.
Yet let us seek to find common areas of accord and work from these.
Thusly I propose that none here would rail against the claiming of the Romani Camp, the area called The Spider woods and the lands that fall within those.
Therefore we are drawn to the next area of contention, namely the area of the Pass that doth hold the bridge and of course the source of Tolls upon travellers.
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_"Claiming this land by right of blood? So you are in fact claiming it for your ancestors?"
He sighs
"Peltarch and the Legion didn't go to war because we were bloodlust or we wanted a land grab, we went to war because your ancestors constantly robbed, murdered, and occasionally raped travellers on the Nars. Norwick faced several attacks, with Eastlanders demanding the town surrender to them. Your ancestors went way beyond defending what they believed was their land as you can see. We went to war to finally put a stop to it.
You want to claim all of this land for your ancestors. One problem with that is what was mentioned earlier, your ancestors lost the war. Another issue is how can we be assured you do not eventually go down the same path they did and we see history repeat itself?"_
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Jonathan seems about to respond, when a new voice cuts him off.
Because Senator, vengeance comes in many forms, and not all is settled in the heat of battle, and the waste of blood on both sides. For those who give praise to Hoar, a blow shall be answered for a blow, and justice is to the spirit of the law, not always the letter. My brother is but seeking repayment for that was dealt us in the past by the less violent means of diplomacy.
As she speaks, she comes farther into the pavilion, flanked by Danielle, and lowering her cloak hood to her shoulders as she looks over the map laid out. Dark of hair, the first hints of white just showing, you can only barely see the resemblance between them.
A large and overreaching plan, Jonathan. If none other here have said so, let me be the first to say it almost borders on madness.
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Ashald:
"So, you wish to trade with us, eventually? You wish us all to live happily ever after? I trust you will understand, I find this difficult to believe, from the leader of the Children of Hoar. Do you not worship the Lord of Vengeance? Is Revenge not the motivation by which you have, very successfully, regrouped your scattered peoples into this new, powerful force? And is it not Peltarch and the Legion upon whom you would eventually visit this vengeance?
You really expect us to believe that you have no hostile intentions towards us, after you have named yourselves thusly, gathered yourselves thusly, rearmed yourselves thusly, and now make claims to the Nars Pass, the same territory that was the root cause of the old conflict? By what reason or logic do you expect us to overlook the overwhelming evidence that you mean to do us grievous harm?"
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The slightest hint of a smile never fading.
Well, to be honest Legionairre, your tower ended there from falling back from that same force. We even offered to help but, seems there are some…. trust issues. As I said, I'll get to the Legion tower eventually.
Looks back to Ashald.
You and the Legion together fought against us. Burned our village, killed our people. Built up monuments, and left to go back to your home. Patted yourselves on the back, called yourselves heroes. Drank some wine perhaps? Settled down by the fire, ruffled your kids hair. Told him stories of how his father fought oh so bravely, while the mother smiled from her knitting….
My father was beheaded. My mother fell to a war machine, careless clumsy things. This child endured without the hair ruffling... but did he indeed hear the stories. His eyes narrow ever so slightly. To think I offered help to you and yours before that time, because to think… I didn't want war, nor the bloodshed.
Eyes look at the map for a long time, before looking over each of those gathered.
I am claiming this by right of blood. I prefer it blood long since spilt. Do not make it fresh spilled yet again.
Stabs the map almost viciously with his finer, before again the slight smile to his lips, and he looks to Theaon.
I don't expect you to move your tower. Honestly, it will not be needed there much longer anyways, do with it as you wish. After all, you seek to guard against hostile lands, and this is not how it will end.
Drags a finger westward past the camp.
I intend to reopen the land trade route to Ilmpitur. Long ago the Romani were able to make contact with several merchants. Two came to stay with them, and our hope is to make this a permanent trade route between Narfell, and their land. A city eventually built where the camp itself still stands, built on the coin that such trade will lead to. Settlers as well, craftsmen.
Drags his finger eastward past the camp to the pass.
With a safe and patrolled route of trade between Peltarch, Norwick, and ourselves. You have things we need, we will soon have things you need. We will do nothing to start this trade while you continue to feel as if we are somehow nothing more then "simple" bandits on your precious road.
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Dwin watches the volleys go back and forth, tilting his head in confusion at some of Mariston's words and nodding at others.
The pass itself must remain open, as a land route between the free people of the Jewel and the Realm. I do not think this to be negotiable.
As to the Legion tower, name a Price and see of they'll pay it!
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_Ronan observes the talks quietly, mostly looking to both Mariston and Ashald for the responses. His eyes glancing to the other representatives as they speak.
He observes Jonathon more closely, however. As the questions and arguments pile onto him as tensions seem to rise._
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Ashald:
"It is, of course, different. Our claim was won, then solidified through years upon years of not only holding it, but actively defending it from those who would take it from us. Centuries of action vindicates our claim. Your claim is nothing more than lines on a map. You have made the claim before winning the land. Indeed, as the Legion General notes, more accurately speaking, you are attempting to make a claim on land your forefathers have categorically lost any claim to, during the Eastlander War."
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_"The Legion Tower will not be relocating if that is what you have in mind. Also, the passage behind the Tower will remain clear of your troops as that is to be used for folks who wish to travel freely between Norwick and Peltarch. If your concerned that any adventurers with any grudges will try and attack your troops then run back to the Legion Tower through that opening in the treeline near the lake, we can simply block that off."
He pauses for a moment, then continues
"Earlier in the meeting I heard you say that all this land in the Nars was 'bought and paid for in blood' and that because of that it belongs to you. Were you referring to the current generation of Eastlanders or your ansestors? Your ansestors felt they owned all of the Nars Pass, and it eventually lead to a war. Your ansestors lost that war, and any claim they felt they had to the Nars was at that point gone.
So that leaves your generation. How exactly has your generation 'bought and paid for' the Nars in blood? Having to fight disgruntled adventurers going to close to the Camp entrance? There is also the issue of other hostile forces using the area you claim to be yours to go north and attack either the Legion Tower or Peltarch.
Remember the N'Jast? Did you make any attempt to tell the N'Jast they are not permitted to go up and down your land as they did during that war, or did you retreat into the Camp?
A few years back an unknown group of hostiles tried to take over the Legion Tower, and they came from the south. If that land is yours, why did you let a foreign armed force run up and down it as they please.
Unless you intentionally allowed these attacks to happen against the Legion Tower and Peltarch, why did you not take arms and vigorously defend your land against obvious trespassers? Even if their goal was to attack another town or group it shouldn't matter, they trespassed on what you felt was your land, and you did nothing about it.
So I ask, how exactly have you paid in blood?"_
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Jonathan looks at Mariston a moment, then laughs softly.
It is large! Massive amount of land even! But, even as Peltarch makes claims to land beyond what it actually inhabits, and Norwick does as well, so to did I when I drew the lines. I have no plans to place farms everywhere on the map, I am sure if I did I'd have to invite the gnolls to come and discuss!
Looks seriously at the map for a moment.
Probably have gotten a better response from them then I did those from Oscura. Held my messenger for days while they discussed, then said they rejected any claim… then sent a representative.
Shakes his head finally.
I placed down what I consider land to be held in the best interests of me and mine, not necessarily what I will be able to take, conquer and hold. As others have prime interest in land they may not formally and rightfully claim, I have interest in those lands surrounding what I consider mine.
Turning to Ashald.
Where did King Tidus come from? Why is that not your home? Surely it was as settled as Peltarch was. After the victorious battle, did you return from whence you came? No. You stayed where you were, because you fought for it! Claimed it. It became.. your words mind you.. Your actual home.
You would consider the Nars Pass different for us?
