On DM Judgements/Discipline
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I just wanted to let you all know that when we have to discipline a player for thier actions, the matter is discussed privately amongst the DM team. We try to consider what is best for the morale and happiness and fairness of the entire community above all else.
We will try to discuss the situation with the player before it becomes an issue where discipline of some kind is actually needed. In that way, the player has a chance to correct thier behaviour that is negatively impacting others in the community.
Please understand that the actual DM that has to be the bearer of bad news and the one that actually disciplines the player in question is simply a representative of the collective judgement of the DM Team.
We rarely, if ever, make any judegments that involves a disciplining a player solo. And if the action warrants immediate judgement, we always inform the rest of the DM Team to insure fairness.
Finally, we will make EVERY effort to avoid making public to the community any disciplining we need to do, to avoid embaressing the person in question.
The reason I spelled this out is that I think there is a perception that certain members of the DM team are acting as the 'heavies' and are handing out judegments without thinking things through or consulting the rest of the team for a discussion over the matter. That is not the case at all.
We loathe (i.e. hate, detest, strongly dislike, do not enjoy, try to avoid) having to mete out ANY negative judgements and/or discipline to ANY of the player base… but the golden rule is that if we believe that it is in the best interests of keeping Narfell fun for the majority.... we will take what measures are needed.
Hope that helps,
Cheers - Kerby
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Regarding my analogy of a court? You assume the structure of a court and trial is based off of the American legal system? Heh. Also… there is such a thing as a closed court. There are also courts for minors, where the record is not released to the public. Generally it is kept private when it is in the best interest of those involved.
You will note that I never used the word punish in my descriptions. Why? Because we are not trying to punish people. We are trying to educate them or remove them from causing harm to the community. Your reasoning that they should not have done it in the first place if they didn't want to be publically ridiculed and ostraziced was already covered.
Individual players being disciplined or banned do not have significant impact on the server. Only the underlying rules in those circumstances. The rules are out there. That is all a player need be concerned about.
There is no guilt by association when we consider actions to discipline players. As to you or the player base siding with us? I covered that too.
As to explaining a banning or discipline upon request? The answer will invariably be... they broke a rule. So that if you follow the rules... you will have nothing to worry about.
The rest of your responses I think have been adequately answered in my above posts.
Perhaps I should not have posted this in an area where it could be discussed. Since the topic is not really up for discussion... rather, it was meant to be an informative post as to how and why things are done.
If any other DMs need to respond in this posting to correct or improve upon what I have outlined... feel free.
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@bc30d3d811=Custodis:
@bc30d3d811=Kerby:
Finally, we will make EVERY effort to avoid making public to the community any disciplining we need to do, to avoid embaressing the person in question.
In my opinion, this can lead only to bad things.
Since no one with the full story is willing to tell anyone what actually happend, the only way for someone to get the full story is from the person themselves, and they will most likely put it in the worst possibly way for yall as the DM team.
I know we are supposed to trust your decisions, but when we only hear about the situation from the person disciplined, it makes it very hard for us to accept it.
Perhaps I didn't give enough of a reason why we do not post the facts regarding discipline cases. It's not only to avoid embarassing anyone.
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Players judging other players would turn into mob justice quickly… and publically announcing problem players would turn into that. If you don't believe me... look at how the player base generally jumps on the PK bandwagon when it rolls into town.
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Disciplining a player is meant to educate them... not punish them. By outing thier shortcomings and embarassing them... we are adding another hurdle to gaining their trust, and helping them fit in with the rules we have made to insure that everyone has fun. It would also extends the process of either filtering out a player that simply doesn't fit in... or assiting in the process of bringing them into the fold.
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You don't need to know... since you are not judging thier actions. If we had an open forum regarding every decision we were forced to make regarding a problem player, we would get nothing else done. Basically, Narfell is not a democracy... it is a meritocracy. The people that are in DM positions have earned it by showing that they can be trusted by their peers to consistently make sound judgement calls. If you want to take on the burden of judging... become a DM.
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The forums are big enough already. Any pertinent information that you need to know to play the game will be made public. Anything else is secondary and generally gets in the way.
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The system we currently use to discipline players works well... why mess with it?
As much as we would like to have your acceptance of our rulings, it's not something we look for or need. The DM team is self policing... that means that we are accountable to our fellow DMs for our actions.
We also have a method of insuring that we stay in touch with the general player base's perspectives regarding our performance and reputation. And that method is the Player Guide and Player Lead Team. If they as a group think there is a valid concern regarding the DM Team's actions or reputation... they bring it to us so that we can adjust accordingly.
As for listening to the sour apples of players that have been disciplined and using what they say to form your opinions? That is like believing the prisoner that says he is innocent after he has been judged to be guilty a panel of judges. Basically you are taking one person's word versus an entire system, full of checks and balances, that says otherwise.
And finally... the only other reason I could think of for why someone may want to know why someone was diciplined? Curiousity. Think of us as highway patrolmen at the scene of a car accident. The importantance of satisfying the curiousity of rubberneckers takes a distant backseat to insuring that the injured people in the accident don't get more injured, the road is clear for people to get to their destination, and finally that the wreckage doesn't cause other accidents. So move on... nothing to see here.
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torches Norwick when he is sure no dm is watching
I have seen some weird stuf happen with no dm's around…but it wasn't all bad
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@ab07e60565=Custodis:
@ab07e60565=Kerby:
Finally, we will make EVERY effort to avoid making public to the community any disciplining we need to do, to avoid embaressing the person in question.
In my opinion, this can lead only to bad things.
Since no one with the full story is willing to tell anyone what actually happend, the only way for someone to get the full story is from the person themselves, and they will most likely put it in the worst possibly way for yall as the DM team.
I know we are supposed to trust your decisions, but when we only hear about the situation from the person disciplined, it makes it very hard for us to accept it.
If we made everything we have done public, there would be no trust left. You would be surprised what some folks do when they think a dm isnt watching.
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@d3e7006a6d=Custodis:
@d3e7006a6d=Kerby:
Finally, we will make EVERY effort to avoid making public to the community any disciplining we need to do, to avoid embaressing the person in question.
In my opinion, this can lead only to bad things.
Since no one with the full story is willing to tell anyone what actually happend, the only way for someone to get the full story is from the person themselves, and they will most likely put it in the worst possibly way for yall as the DM team.
Myself, I do like the idea they don't bring it public, it's not their busniness. How great DMs may be, they too will have their version of the truth, so if they post why you got banned, you'll look bad because of it.
