Norwick: Design Phase
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I'd like to point out that barbarians dont have towns. A town is a form of civilization, while barbarism, by definition, is a lack of civilization.
The more structured and formalized the town, the less barbaric it becomes. Not saying that is right or wrong, but barbarian is alot more than just a class definition.
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er…
...lets not assume that there isnt already some kind of organized crime element in place that might just be happy to not have any competition....
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@b6281c8244=Vortext:
…to replace Kyra who is now but a ghost of a memory.
Kyra was actually active in some plots that were brought to an abrupt end a couple months ago. Of course her disappearance during the invasion would suggest she was killed (this is entirely guessing though). Of course Alora and Gruff are still alive.
The second-hand goods never really sold very well but that shop would be a perfect place for the "gray-market" stuff someone was talking about before. The collection of bardic stuff outside of Peltarch was also kind of nice. That place has lots of RP history that is a nice springboard for dm's in relation to roguish events.
Getting rid of it would kind of put a damper on small rogue events in or around Norwick unless it was an entirely new group moving in.
On the other hand, assuming Alora didn't have enough money for a whole new shop she could always hang out in a back room of the boarshead to sell stuff or even behind/next to the boarshed instead of having a whole shop.
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Lucid, Dwin, and myself have all been brainstorming ideas for the rebuilding of Norwick.
I am VERY impressed at many of the ideas above and it has given me much to think about before I meet with Dwin and Lucid next to discuss further steps.
WTG guys, keep the great comments coming.
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I like the indoor flea market Idea. I am sure it is coming, but I would like to see more Dwin/Lucy influence on the rebuilding IC as they are pretty much running the town. I would imagine Dwin will be building some nicely fortified walls and all that kind of cool good stuff :idea:
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I would like to see the Heyokarr push for a classic Longhouse where tribal councils and happenings could be conducted as well as a slightly looser drinking area.
The Heyokarr tribe is very tied to Norwick and while it may not be a barbarian town anymore I would still expect them to have a presence/influence. This would include the occassional trade meet with other tribes arriivng to the frontier town for a day of bartering and sale and trade. The Featherflights would be an archers dream day, the Red Tigers for runic weapons.
In the same fashion I am fairly sure the sisterhood would like to see about opening theior own shop within the town, perhaps to replace Kyra who is now but a ghost of a memory.
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@513b97ebf9:
- what is the purpose of the city?
I would call it a "town" rather than a city - it isn't a Peltarch (and shouldn't be). That said, it serves several purposes.
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Gateway to the Rawlins. For 90+% of those going to the Rawlins, you're going through (or immediately around) Norwick, both coming and going. That makes it the logical jumping off place for Rawlins-related trade (arrows +1 vs. goblins, bugbears (or on the black market, saurials), potions and scrolls to resist the most common spells used by their casters, etc.), and buying items coming back from the Rawlins.
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Frontier town. Even moreso than Jiyyd, Norwick is a frontier town. While both towns have their "wild" areas surrounding them, Norwick has more and deeper, and more importantly, the near Rawlins are accessible to lower level characters than the areas around Jiyyd - which means they see more traffic.
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Trading waypoint. Norwick is the gateway to the overland route to the south. As such, it should see a variety of trade goods and caravans headed in both directions. Given the large transient population of caravaniers this would create, the town is even more the "Frontier Town."
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Gray Market. Jiyyd is too small to have much of a Black Market, and while Peltarch must have one, Peltarch laws make trading in it risky. Oscura of course, should be the ultimate city for Black Market goods - but Norwick should be a not-too-distant second. As a trade hub, and given their government, it would be the ideal place to move goods that were not entirely legal elsewhere.
@513b97ebf9:
- what kind of people live in the city?
Many types:
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The descendants of the Nars Barbarians, now a good deal more civilized.
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Traders and merchants who decided to settle at this end of the route, or who make their living off the adventurers going into the Rawlins.
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Farmers and ranchers (in the South Valley).
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Wizards who study at Spellweaver Keep but do not live there.
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Adventurers who make their living off the Rawlins.
@513b97ebf9:
- how does the city sustain itself economically?
Serving so many functions, the town should be larger and have more upscale businesses (in a frontier-town kind of way) than simple farming and ranching could support. Taxes from trade (gray market goods are fine, so long as the taxes are paid) would be a large portion of the revenues, as would adventurers spending loot obtained in the Rawlins.
As the Headquarters of the Crafter's Union, there should be a mechanism for Norwick-homed (or perhaps Crafters Union members only) crafters to sell low-end crafted goods to a shop there (in the same way as Cera in the Gypsy Camp buys spider eyes - in a limited number, at slightly below market rates, once per reset). The shop would then re-sell those crafted goods - things that are not available elsewhere, except directly from a crafter. Of course, for high-end or masterwork items, it would still be necessary to contact a crafter directly.
@513b97ebf9:
- how do the people eat?
Farms in the South Valley, plus game hunted from the Rawlins, plus imported specialty foods.
@513b97ebf9:
- how many people are there?
A core population perhaps 2 to 3 times the size of Jiyyd, plus a much larger transient population of traders and adventurers. As a frontier town, the number of adventurers and retired adventurers (many of whom might have retired after losing limbs, acquiring some other permanent disability, or dying one too many times) should be higher than normal.
@513b97ebf9:
- what kind of trade do they have with other cities?
Peltarch: Trade with Peltarch would be mostly indirect, with Norwick acting as a hub for goods coming from (and going to) the southern overland route. The only exception to this would be goods that come from the Rawlins and are not available elsewhere (such as bugbear weaponry). IMO, Norwick should try to find a way to keep bugbear weaponry from being directly sold in Peltarch (so that Norwick Merchants can sell it to Peltarch merchants in bulk, and Norwick can tax the sale).
Oscura: Trade with Oscura would be mostly indirect, with the possible exceptions of supplemental foodstuffs (and bugbear weaponry) coming from Norwick to Oscura, and Gray Market goods going from Oscura to Norwick. Jiyyd could trade food to Oscura, but might not - Norwickians would probably have no such compunctions.
The Gypsy Camp and Jiyyd: Norwick would probably not have much trade with either, except for items that are unique to one side or the other.
With Norwick deriving so much of its income from trade, efforts would be made to ensure that trade goods stopped (and were taxed) there, rather than bypassed the town. This might create opportunities for smugglers as well…
@513b97ebf9:
- what kind of military setup defends the city?
Due to the enormous amount of goblin and bugbear attacks on the town, Norwick should have a large military presence, designed mostly around static defenses pointed south. The southern wall should be upgraded to stone with a parapet, and there should be no access to the town for creatures coming from the south other than through the south gate (possibly leave the graveyard access open). Sorry druids, but if the southern defenses are upgraded and the goblins can simply walk around the wall to attack the much weaker north gate, then the town has a problem.
@513b97ebf9:
- how much space should the city take up?
The current map size is good, though Dwin has a point about the permanent buildings being in a more compact area.
What I'd like to see is the Great Hall and militia barracks enclosed in their own wall as now, and then the other permanent buildings clustered tightly around that wall - with much of the remainder of the space being taken up by tents and camps for the large transient population. The transients might even have merchants among them that would change out from time to time.
Agreed that the Boarshead should be much more of a 'rowdy' bar - and it would make sense for the Jiyyd arena to be moved to Norwick - perhaps even with betting, and 'take on the local champion' matches (against even bugbears, goblins and saurials (or… undead from the graveyard...) if safe conducts could be arranged. Likewise, a brothel would fit much better in Norwick than Jiyyd.
Chrispo's comments about Barbarian items are well-taken, and there should be such available for sale in Norwick... even if they have to be looted from the crypts
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I really disagree with the idea that Norwick is a "barbarian" town, both from the point of view of its politics and that it would favor items for a particular class of adventurer as a result.
True, Norwick was a "barbaric" town in its inception (how many arent?) but I would argue that under the reigns of Rando, Milshot, Lucid (and briefly Dwin
) it has been highly organized and anything but barbaric.I think that the merchants should go indoors both from a lag perspective as well as a realistic standpoint. They can ll be inside one big barn for all I care, like an indoor flea market. I think that would make sense.
If one of the merchants in that indoor market were to cater more to Adventurers with the class of 'Barbarian', then I think that makes sense too. That one is up to May. (and since Maythor Troff is a crafting barbarian himself, maybe there's some hope there!)
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The way I see it, Norwick has always been a fortified town at the edge of the woods, under constant threat of goblins and bugbears, as well as undead and whatever else. It hasn't been a pure barbarian town for a while. What I would like to see is Norwick as a kind of castle. Walled, with towers, and the buildings inside closely packed together to save space, with a central courtyart. The Great Hall and Barracks would be behind another set of walls to form a sort of keep. Farms and the like would be good to place in the "south valley".
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I liked the concept of the open-air market, but I think in practice it was a bit of a lag machine. Could the entire market be moved indoors? What I mean is, even if we are going to keep all the merchants together so we don't tie up resources with 8 different shops, can it just be indoors away from the main town area?
I think the Boarshead could use an update, including a fighting pit, but also gambling and whoring… basically I think it would be an appropriate front for all manner of illicit black market trades... with the right people having their hands in everything, taking their cut.
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My only comment..
Norwick is, and will likely always remain, a barbarian town. I'd like to see more barbarian-like items available. Perhaps this would be the solution to the suggestions concerning the poor availability and stats of medium armors. Barbarians are, as most people claim, supposed to wear medium armors. And being a barbarian town, Norwick would likely specialize in such things. Just as Oscura has its little monk-friendly merchant, I'd like to see Norwick have a barbarian-friendly one. Nothing uber or over the top, just something fitting. Maybe some medium armor with +AC and some points to Taunt or Intimidate. Shrugs Just a thought.
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Boarshead: i agree that the Boarshead needs to be more of a rough place. right now, no one goes there. it used to be much more used for meetings, etc. i think the amount of placeables in there made it too much (huge fires, etc). lets get it back to a big room where fights can take place. if there was EVER a tavern that needed a public fighting ring, it would be Norwick's.
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the last version of Norwick was a bit "spread out" IMO. I would like to see a tighter, closer formation of buildings. I'm not even sure we need such a large map. the barracks and the great hall should be behind their own wall like they are, and then everything else should be closely arranged outside, I think.
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the South Valley (ironically named because its NORTH of the city) should be a place where PC's and NPC's can build homes and farm.
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I think Lucid is well aware of the planned defenses, locations, etc. at this point, but he can obviously ask if he has any questions
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Greetings….......
I liked how Norwick was and hope it will look somewhat similar when it is rebuilt. More things added is always better and I would like to see an emphasis on a better weapon\armour shop r\t the defence of Norwick. Sence it is somewhat of a fighters town a more rowdy bar would be kind of neat. Also I would love to see some kind of memorial statue erected in town to those who were killed during the battles for Norwick. Will write more when I think of it. I truly think you should trust your own judgement, you guys have created a fantastic world so far.
