OOC: New Norwick ((updated))
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I like it. My only tiny beef is with the archer towers/wall. It also applies to Jiyyd, but that hasn't just been redesigned.
A Level1 hill that overlooks or forms part of the earthwork defences lets people easily use archery to attack foes at the gates. If you also have a double-gate killing ground, so much the better for town attacks.
I'd expect similar grimness when events require us to take the Orc fortress also. 5-10 archers peppering the hapless fools at the gates would make peopel respect defensive advantage a lot more.
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Eh screw the south gates. The town as a whole is great.
Nice work Baboo
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i like it, well done babs. I am glad the snow has gone.
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I love it!
It's got a good feel to the whole town.
I'm with a few that I'm not completely happy with the south gates, for attacks and such….
but the rest is super.I'm an old vet, and I remember build 6 and 7, and this is what Norwick used to feel like, and still be new and fun.
I love the new section to the Pass, great for ambushes and hunts...
and I do not miss the snow!
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Good to hear the snow's gone…it always jarred with me that the most southerly of the towns was the only one snowbound.
Will take a look around later tonight...more thoughts then.
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I like it.
::shrugs::
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Norwick has much of its old feel back, though to me it feels the town is now for a great part a vast emptiness.. I would suggest keeping the open-air market plaze, but putting the merchants closer together and the other buildings around. Everything else is just fine, to me.
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Snow…gone...in Norwick!? Dear gods, let's hope a certain captain doesn't hold a sailor lass to her promise to move to her least favourite town "when the snow melts".
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Wandered around a bit more and refined/altered my opinion:
*It's not quite as jarring a change as I originally thought; in fact, entering Norwick from the north, I had a sudden sense of deja vu as I realized how much it looked like the old Build Seven north gate.
*I like the fact that the commoners have names now, apparently.
*While the open air market is great, I think Praeth should be restored to his shop, perferably in the old location just east of Wald's Storehouse hill. The reasons for this: One, it was sort of a landmark, one of those things that said Norwick to me. Two, more important, I think having the basic supplies merchant indoors and out of the line of fire is going to save a lot of headache. I'm remembering the Defiler weekend, and the number of people who needed Praeth for arrows, quarrels, rations, etc during the fighting in the streets. He can share a map with The Tailored Cloth if need be.
*Move Fred out of the government compound. While I can see why they'd want the town cleric in there with them, consider: Fred's place is a high-business, high-traffic establishment frequented by all sorts of unsavory types (adventurers). They're going to be going in and out of the gates constantly. If you're the Norwick guard/government, you want as few people going in and out of the bailey as possible, and you want most of them to be Norwick guards or officials. You DON'T want bleeding people, people sick with dieseases magical and otherwise, people possessed by demons, and all the other sorts of stuff Fred winds up handling.
Also, Fred has been in roughly the same spot ever since I can remember, which dates back to Build 6 or so. If there's no reason to move him, let's keep him there. Continuity!
*Moving the weapons merchants and junkstore lady to an open air market was brilliant. Frago could use the company and it'll cut away a few interiors, as well as give us a place for more interaction. Maybe add a gibbet? Fun for the whole family…
On the subject of that; many medieval markets had a 'focal point' the whole shebang centered around; frequently a 'Market Cross' or pillar engraved with the market charter granted by the church. Obviously not a cross for Norwick, but a similar 'focal point' in the market might be good.
*I like the return of the grass and the old Norwick sounds. However, IMHO the south gate should be switched back to the old 'Forest Night' music at nights.
I'll update this if I think of anything else.
-Lagermane
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i am so glad that the snow melted.
theres alot of good input here… thanks to everyone for being detailed in their postings.
i just want to thank Baboo at the same time... he put alot of time into this and had many many people giving advice, making requests, etc. getting feedback like this will certainly help come up with a concise list of improvements/changes that the DM team can ponder and approve if necessary.
thanks again to baboo...
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The snow is gone!? Excellent!
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I do miss the snow, but all the cliff/gourge sorts of things are awesom!
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Central town, I like. Norwick has pushed north from the walls anyway, so attacks from the north can be met at the crossroads with the guards stationed on Sams hill anyway, and the wall there is now more of a fall back position. Maybe push one or two little forward positions to the Nars Pass - Norwick map, like those little hollows with a wall on one side, and a tower. If people really want to have something there desperatly.
Now the south gate however…..
We've lost the archers hill, and arrow towers have shocking lines of sight for shooting over walls. Earthen Ramparts(aka raising terrain 1 level in the line of the walls) and ramps up would make life much easier for archers(and lowbies trying to avoid having to melee ubber monsters) in attacks from the south, even if this was only part of the wall and walls built out from these on either side.(anyone confused about this let me know and I'll see about posting a screenshot of what I mean)
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After an initial look, I'm of very mixed opinion.
The new version, with the tents and open-air market, feels more like a 'barrbarian town'. The new sub-wall around the governmental buildings gives a sort of bailey feel that's appropriate.
Visually there's a lot to approve of.
The bad: It feels like this map really was thrown together without much regard for the traditional layout of Norwick. There just isn't any continuity, and no in-game events to explain the changes. We have had town redesigns before, and everyone knows to just overlook small things like the Boarshead switching around, etc. But this isn't so much a few changes as completely reworking everything from the ground up, and it's jarring.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that with every other build change, if you plopped me down in the town out of the blue, I would recognize it as Norwick. The same is not true here; it's like a completely different town.
I think the open air market is a good idea, but could use more thought and a better execution than simply moving all the old merchants outside. Among other things, how is this going to affect situations where many huge nasties are loose in town, and people want to buy supplies?
Unsure why the north gate has been moved back. IMHO this is going to hurt the execution of any town attacks from the north.
-Lagermane
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At the south gate, the campfire can't view the gates, and the platform is far removed. Makes it harder to get a variety of RP going on, as people on the platform can't talk to those coming in, etc.
Also, I miss the dock over the lake. Used to fish, sit on it, watch things… I just liked it. No biggie though.
