OOC: New Norwick ((updated))
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@4d35d3a26e=Oreth:
In reference to what Scut said, I'd like to ask that any attempts to expand the town into the Rawlins be roleplayed out in the forums and IG before they're toolsetted and implemented, so they can be appropriately protested and/or sabotaged.
Thanks!
Naturally I was speaking irrespective of ongoing player actions. I'd agree with you.
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@242f9ca41f=Oreth:
In reference to what Scut said, I'd like to ask that any attempts to expand the town into the Rawlins be roleplayed out in the forums and IG before they're toolsetted and implemented, so they can be appropriately protested and/or sabotaged.
Thanks!
too late. we pwn you. all your tree are belong to us.
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In reference to what Scut said, I'd like to ask that any attempts to expand the town into the Rawlins be roleplayed out in the forums and IG before they're toolsetted and implemented, so they can be appropriately protested and/or sabotaged.
Thanks!
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You removed Selune's Tear!! Put it back!
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As is often the case, I would like to associate myself with Lagermane's remarks.
1.) First, the pass area north of town is an improvement. I like the gullies, gulches, and gorges. I don't understand why the town would remove what I see as a strong defensive gate in place of a weaker one, but that is personal preference, I guess. Note that the wall was originally moved to this location to ease the server load on town attacks from the north, separating the lag of town from the lag of battle, as well as giving DMs some room to oganize attackers instead of the narrow strip outside the gate now. This remains my preference from both sides of the DM/player line.
2.) Second, I was a huge fan of the layout vron had done for the town. I think the snow made my eyes hurt when trying to follow a lot of chat text, so I am not devastated to see it gone. As for the rest, I am of two minds.
The good: This new layout IS much more representative of a barbarian settlement in my mind. I like the open air market (and I agree with comments about keeping Praeth indoors) and the bailey look of the town center. I would give the merchants little tents to keep dry (similar to the covered cushion area in the camp?) and maybe put them more in a circle like a traveling wagon train. Maybe even add some of the wagon area features like the one in the Silver Valley. I would also raise up the bailey one terrain level, and do the same for archer towers as was suggested, though all that really means is putting yourself in harms way. Restore the double gate.
The bad: With each revision that I have been here for, Norwick has seemed to me to be a growing town. From barbarian settlement roots, it became a village in build 7, and then late in build 8 vron's work gave the look of a growing town with a thoughtful layout, meeting the needs of an expanded population. Recent events suggest to me that Norwick is looking to grow even more, with claims on the Nars, Sam's Hill, and a steadily growing population. Why then would the town suddenly become more simple, or smaller? If anything, I would have expected the snow to be removed, for MORE buildings to be put in place, pushing walls out even further, with more commoners and militia to be visible. Maybe making a claim to be the CITY of Norwick. Maybe paving the main drag. Instead, it looks like the town was sent back in time a hundred years.
I'm not knocking the design work, because I think it is a great example of a young barbarian settlement. I just think it would be more appropriate as a settlement for the Featherflights or Heyokaar or whomever rather than Norwick.
3.) The area south. I'm not sure how much change here was the goal or if it was primarily snow removal. Instead of having the gate funnel extending back towards the town and cutting off the fire, I would rather see the funnel go out towards the lake, creating two forward areas for the towers to sit in, commanding the gate and all approaches to it. Adding a second gate is all the better. Replace the dock. Rethink the layout and wall of Vino's area, it looks a bit awkward. Raise the towers.
I have a tremendous appreciation for what is involved in even the smallest area designs and as much respect for Baboo's work, so I hope my comments are viewed in the constructive spirit I have offered them and not as flames for the new work.
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And have the pigeons have a go at the real dwin's head at times
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/me suggests a statue of Dwin in the middle of the green. It will attract attention, both from towns-folk and wayward pigeons.
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I agree with what most have posted - With the snow being gone, it's got a much more…hospitable, homey feel. Brings back memories of sitting around the crowded fires awaiting something to pop out of the portal, or bash down the southern gates. And it seems people are far more likely to sit in grass than in snow. Who knew? =P
As for the town layout, I feel it is very empty... As mentioned above, maybe moving things a bit closer together would help. The town as a whole seems barren to me - A house here, a commoner here, then a large cluster of buildings a bit farther away... Maybe it would be better to space things out more evenly, but at the same time, move them all closer. The market could be more unified and organized as well. The idea of a main focal point is a good one. Maybe the well, being an old Norwick landmark, or perhaps something new.
Overall, it's a welcome change aesthetically, but the layout could use some minor tweaking. Good job, nonetheless!
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the snow is still there, we just hired a bunch of goons to shovel it all. As soon as you head north, you'll see where it is all piled… in the Nars.
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I'm going to come out in the minority and say that I liked the snow….narfell is a cold, frozen place. We probably could've used snow a lot of other places, too...
Other than that, I think the new town looks great.
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I like it. My only tiny beef is with the archer towers/wall. It also applies to Jiyyd, but that hasn't just been redesigned.
A Level1 hill that overlooks or forms part of the earthwork defences lets people easily use archery to attack foes at the gates. If you also have a double-gate killing ground, so much the better for town attacks.
I'd expect similar grimness when events require us to take the Orc fortress also. 5-10 archers peppering the hapless fools at the gates would make peopel respect defensive advantage a lot more.
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Eh screw the south gates. The town as a whole is great.
Nice work Baboo
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i like it, well done babs. I am glad the snow has gone.
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I love it!
It's got a good feel to the whole town.
I'm with a few that I'm not completely happy with the south gates, for attacks and such….
but the rest is super.I'm an old vet, and I remember build 6 and 7, and this is what Norwick used to feel like, and still be new and fun.
I love the new section to the Pass, great for ambushes and hunts...
and I do not miss the snow!
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Good to hear the snow's gone…it always jarred with me that the most southerly of the towns was the only one snowbound.
Will take a look around later tonight...more thoughts then.
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I like it.
::shrugs::
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Norwick has much of its old feel back, though to me it feels the town is now for a great part a vast emptiness.. I would suggest keeping the open-air market plaze, but putting the merchants closer together and the other buildings around. Everything else is just fine, to me.
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Snow…gone...in Norwick!? Dear gods, let's hope a certain captain doesn't hold a sailor lass to her promise to move to her least favourite town "when the snow melts".
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Wandered around a bit more and refined/altered my opinion:
*It's not quite as jarring a change as I originally thought; in fact, entering Norwick from the north, I had a sudden sense of deja vu as I realized how much it looked like the old Build Seven north gate.
*I like the fact that the commoners have names now, apparently.
*While the open air market is great, I think Praeth should be restored to his shop, perferably in the old location just east of Wald's Storehouse hill. The reasons for this: One, it was sort of a landmark, one of those things that said Norwick to me. Two, more important, I think having the basic supplies merchant indoors and out of the line of fire is going to save a lot of headache. I'm remembering the Defiler weekend, and the number of people who needed Praeth for arrows, quarrels, rations, etc during the fighting in the streets. He can share a map with The Tailored Cloth if need be.
*Move Fred out of the government compound. While I can see why they'd want the town cleric in there with them, consider: Fred's place is a high-business, high-traffic establishment frequented by all sorts of unsavory types (adventurers). They're going to be going in and out of the gates constantly. If you're the Norwick guard/government, you want as few people going in and out of the bailey as possible, and you want most of them to be Norwick guards or officials. You DON'T want bleeding people, people sick with dieseases magical and otherwise, people possessed by demons, and all the other sorts of stuff Fred winds up handling.
Also, Fred has been in roughly the same spot ever since I can remember, which dates back to Build 6 or so. If there's no reason to move him, let's keep him there. Continuity!
*Moving the weapons merchants and junkstore lady to an open air market was brilliant. Frago could use the company and it'll cut away a few interiors, as well as give us a place for more interaction. Maybe add a gibbet? Fun for the whole family…
On the subject of that; many medieval markets had a 'focal point' the whole shebang centered around; frequently a 'Market Cross' or pillar engraved with the market charter granted by the church. Obviously not a cross for Norwick, but a similar 'focal point' in the market might be good.
*I like the return of the grass and the old Norwick sounds. However, IMHO the south gate should be switched back to the old 'Forest Night' music at nights.
I'll update this if I think of anything else.
-Lagermane
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i am so glad that the snow melted.
theres alot of good input here… thanks to everyone for being detailed in their postings.
i just want to thank Baboo at the same time... he put alot of time into this and had many many people giving advice, making requests, etc. getting feedback like this will certainly help come up with a concise list of improvements/changes that the DM team can ponder and approve if necessary.
thanks again to baboo...
