Ooc: What do you want to see in Arnath
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Not what i meant by a two tier system, but it seems i've been the muse for some productive, and interesting, thought.
In regards to the two tier system.. I meant a dual levelled city.. One for citizens, and another for all. The lower and restricted level would have the civic buildings, guild houses, temples etcetera.. Whilst the upper tier would have the merchants, inns and things of that nature. Last time the idea was brought up most people seemed in favour of it..
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There is some wisdom in not being openly evil, I suppose.
An alternative solution that keeps realism, keeps things evil and gritty, but slows the opposing forces, is to be locked and uncommunicative. People vow on their lives not to say anything about Arnath. Geased, even… If they fail to take the vow and accept the geas, they can't leave the city (this is to allow us to realistically pretend we have commoners and such, as issuing as geas to -every- citizen would be a bit much).
So Arnath becomes this dark and mysterious city. The walls can be warded against 'detect evil' (I've been told by DMs that every jail cell in Norwick is warded against magical means of escape by spell weaver, so it's not like warding is a big no-no when there exists a powerful PC/NPC sect to do it).
Arnath becomes a mystery. The guards outside speak little, eluding nothing of the city's true nature. People that live there and leave are bound to say nothing of it to non-members. Not even hint that they live there.
I dunno, maybe I'm making no sense... But... Whatever.
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And you weren't around when Arnath first got started. By being the "evil city" we had constant spies down in Arnath (that spied on it by some boderline abusive of the stealth system/invisibility), metagaming, and other fun things like that.
The Gypsy Camp was and is different from Arnath. Comparing them is like comparing an apple to a gerbil. While both are tasty treats to eat
they aren't the same thing. Arnath WAS started as a haven for evil, but there are people who are neither good nor evil, but might have reason to live or be in Arnath. What's more, if we become an openly evil town, we'll just get MORE spies, not less. We'll have more metagaming, and get more general crap from (some of) the good players. Being someone who visits Arnath will again become a reason for the good people to give you trouble. I personally don't want to deal with that again.
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I agree….no nuetral front.
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Was anyone ELSE around during the Narfell witch hunts at the Gypsie camp?
An open policy doesn't work for evils. It's been tested and it failed. If you go back real far in the old suggestion posts you'll see the main purpose for having built Arnath to begin with was so that the EVIL community had a place to call home, and be safe from constant harrasment from the upworld, not as another neutral ground they can come and mandate at their leisure.
The only thing keeping a locked evil city from working is the lack of players playing evil characters. The reason few play evil in Narfell is because it can sometimes be less painful to lay a duck egg than try to be genuinely evil here, BUT, if we are all willing to keep trucking for it, evil WILL have it's own EQUAL place in Narf one day….anyway I'm not saying we lock it only to evils. Evils and neutrals is totally fair, but the "do-gooders" have to be kept out or the whole city becomes pointless.
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I'm all in favour of openness. But I'd urge anyone who plans to do anything like visit and betray Arnath to topside not to whine OOC if their character ends up very dead, very quickly. It looks like Arnath is tolerated to some extent by some powerful folks topside.
Also, there are consequences to really upsetting people who have less compunctions about following fluffy morality. Arnath is there as a representation of something bigger, just like the great port city of Peltarch could have more than 2 boats dock there, or more than 20 houses.
So yeah, come one, come all you dodgy outcast folks.
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Nope, lock the city and you stop people visiting which limits rping, which will make no one stay in the city. because why stay in the city if you can only rp with just arnath citizens. And as we have seen it hard to get people to stay an Arnath citizen. I mean who would stay in Pelt if only Pelt citizens could go there? You will go where the most people are to rp. Keep the main parts open to the publice, and have the areas only citizens can get to, like the GC.
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Still watches the thread.
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I was saying that monsters could be added on the ends of incorrect routes of the maze… More incentive not to try to navigate through the maze unless you know the way.
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My fault. ONE pc on the council…put there because her dad is a large ally...is neutral. all the others are evil. The watchers are evil. Arar to my knowledge is evil. But yeah, sorry...forgot that one neutral. So i guess that negates the entire statement...
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hmm. Arnath should only be evil?? hmm sorry i dont agree.
Outcasts, yes!
Just evil..NO.
If arnath were to be just evil..then that would give the surface a good IC reaosn to wipe the place off the mpa for good….perhaps with permadeath to its inhabitats. As why would Norwick tollerate such a place close by.
No..best to keep it a town of outcasts...nothing stopping the outcasts from being evil.
As for being harder to get too? why?....then the low level PC's will find it hard to travel if they have to fight past monsters.
Sorry but i am a great believer in keeping major travel routes in narf free from monsters. to allow more freedom of movement betwen centres.
as for making the crypts a maze. well it is..sort of already but yes perhaps it could be added too a bit more to make it a tad more complex.
Traps? hmm i surpose they would be fine....
Contact with the surface??? why not?? just becasue we are outcasts...or i should say some of you are outcasts...does not mean no contact...i mean...shoulndt that measn that you guys should never go to the surface either.....hmm i can see alot of you getting upset if that happened...
Hm and this bit.,."Arnath is made, ruled and harbour evil people,"
hmm actually not quite….ok ok....i think most probaly know my feelings in general on evil PC's...((and yes i do have an evil PC..was my first PC in narf))
but i worry about Arnath becoming truely evil......
in fact if it was i would have to say that if arnath became truely evil...i would probably leave narfell...[shrugs] not that any would care….
I have always been the believer in evil being predominatly the domain of DM's. With the few evil PC's working with the DM's behind the scenes....bah..i'll shut up now...i think most of ya know my thoughts on this already.
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You don't think the city should be locked? I think allowing it to be unlocked is ridiculous, unless you have the neutral front thing going and make everyone think we're just a peachy little underground colony.
But I think the neutral front thing is boring. Blah.
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We aren't talking about locking the city again are we?
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Sorry for double-posting… But this has little to do with the previous post anyways.
Arnath needs to be harder to get to. Not necessarily farther underground. Commute time to the surface is long enough as it. Just make it harder and more dangerous to find/get to for those who don't know the way.
The first thing that could be done is changing the crypts and caverns. Make them like big mazes, but give maps to citizens of Arnath that can be used to reveal the entire area, allowing them to easily navigate the maze.
Then add monster spawns (undead in crypts, formians in caverns) to some of the wrong-way routes.
And traps... Is there a way to make it so anyone with a certain item (bloody rag) automatically sees a trap? Is there a way to make it so they can disarm it without rolling disable trap? Perhaps have it re-arm after 5 rounds or something? And still, with all of this, allow the rogue not carrying a bloody rag to spot and disable the same traps? If there was... That would be super. I think having booby traps set up en-route to the secret evil city is very sensible and realistic.
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Someone said drugs…
That is a -really- good idea, IMO. Especially if they're real, scripted drugs, with the bonuses and penalties that are incurred, addictions, satiation periods, withdrawal... Yes! Allow PCs to produce them and sell them. (Another branch of the crafting system?) It would be very sexy.
And yeah... I'm all about an evil, secluded Arnath. No neutral front, no co-existance. Evil and in spite of.
A tarnished city, boasting impressive temples to dark deities, devils, and demons, filled with dark streets and darker allyways. Drugs, weapons, torture devices, or any device promoting sadism, self-destruction, taboo carnal pleasures, and demented fantasies proliferate the active and unchecked black market. Old shacks house the majority, but the rich and powerful reside in impressive abodes built from imported wood or bricks, or perhaps even tunneled and carved right into the stone walls of the cavern city. Theives and murderers run rampant in the evernight, but only the few who are not caught are fortunate enough to be unexposed to the harsh punishment of the strict martial law. Seats of power in key societies and organizations in the city and, of course, the government of the city itself are cushy, and because of this highly sought-after and fiercely competed for.
Well... Maybe I got a little carried away... But that's kinda my vision. I guess. It's 2am. I'm not quite sure if what I just wrote made any sense.
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outcasts eh? i dont see the tribunal do be outcasts but the guy in my signature is the one on the top heh.
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takes note of whats been said and goes back to work
Thanks for the input guys.
Oh and remember, what Arnath is becoming and will become is decided ig, ideas are more than welcome but in the end its the ig actions that decide.
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@347f1d6b75=robilar:
Why do we want contact with the surface anyway? Isn't this city founded by outcasts?
I don't know exactly why people are bringing surfacers down here but, quick note, if The Nameless Monk sees any non-arnathian around town she will demand to know who brought them in, and there will be reprocussions. We're not trying to co-exist with the surface realm - we're trying to live DESPITE them.
Can I hear WHAT??
That's right baby! :drunk:
coughs What he said.
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Why do we want contact with the surface anyway? Isn't this city founded by outcasts?
I don't know exactly why people are bringing surfacers down here but, quick note, if The Nameless Monk sees any non-arnathian around town she will demand to know who brought them in, and there will be reprocussions. We're not trying to co-exist with the surface realm - we're trying to live DESPITE them.
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Once the new city and new spawns get in, i wouldn't mind seeing arnath become almost a "world within a world" where its mostly estranged from teh surface. Sure, some will still go to both places, but if its self sustaining and opened up as a starting option in the future then I think it could very easily function on its own as an evil entity.
look at this from an evil person perspective…
I don't want to walk around my city as an evil person with a damned phoenix guild member wandering around looking at me, asking questions to me about everything i do...
I dont' want one of the biggested known guys from the surface wandering around down there becuase its "open" and then suddenly running up top and telling everyone everything about it...
I don't want the general of a group that has already nearly brought war upon us skipping through town and coming down to buy crap because its got "cool loot" in arnath
Its the atmosphere of the place that just doesn't feel right. I agree with Wyk, you want discreet evil atmosphere hit up peltarch or maybe the camp...hell even norwick lately. Part of the fun about evil is being able to play evil, be openly evil, not hide your god, not hide if you're a drow, not hide if you're wanted on the surface. just to be there, in an atmosphere of evil, and play it.
People will send spies, you're right. Guess what, they do it as a neutral place. As a neutral place we still get flack for being from arnath. We get the majority of the flak we would get for being an evil city already, without any of the fun benifits of BEING an evil city...
I think the neutral front is good now, but once things get settled and evil can stay within the city easily I would be fine and more happy seeing it become a more "evil" city ((and by evil I mean evil and neutral aligned people on average...just like jiyyd is kind of a "good" town but still has a good bit of neutrals in it too)). If it forever and ever remains just a neutral city, for all comers, to all points, even after things get to where we don't have to get up top, i think it just kills the point of the place.
Plus...when the good people see slave trade, or public grousome executions, or prostituion all over, or temples dedicated to shar, bane, cyric, etc ((and i'll say the whole nice thing about an evil city is you don't have to HIDE those things)) then no amount of face we put up is going to ch ange that they're going to think the place is evil. And if we leave it open and neutral that just means that not only is it percieved evil, but they can stroll right in to start sabotaging if they want...
