3. Server Direction Discussion Thread - 8-28-24

Server Direction Discussion Thread - 8-28-24

  • Legion

    @araighn Hey!

    I've visited a couple of different servers. None of them grabbed me (because they weren't Nafell), but I did notice something. Servers that had pretty healthy numbers did not have much visible DM activity (that I could tell), but had a solid DM team.

    This did get me thinking. A part of what made Narfell great for me a while back was the play between Player Characters. DM activity was something I usually missed out on, and when I did see DM action it was usually just an opportunity to be a side character in a story they were telling. It usually didn't have much to do with the story going on between Player Characters.

    I'm struggling to think of ways to facilitate and encourage those kinds of connections - Player initiated stories between Player Characters. Guilds had a bit role to play a while back. DMs seemed to be antagonistic toward guilds rather than supportive of them as far as I could see. I think some DMs had some favourite guilds maybe? It didn't really matter to me - I was happy Legion-ing it up with other Legionnaires! Guilds are dead now, but if we're looking for a new direction for the servier, it really needs to be Player Character focused.

    For a server to be Player Character focused, it probably needs two things - facilitation and reward of Party play, and the possibility of Player Character goals outside spawn farming.

    At the end of the day, you get what you reward. If going out solo to farm spawns is more rewarding than interacting with another player's PC, then that's what we'll see more of. @hekatoncheires - recently kicked off an IC bounty hunt. Brilliant! Wondering how that's going. I think that kind of thing is an example of where we want to go. PCs interacting with other PCs rather than huddling around DM "events" like kids waiting to get candy when Santa tosses it out for them.

    .. not saying events shouldn't happen, but they shouldn't be the primary source of advancement of a PCs story. Neither should spawn grinding be.

    @araighn - correct me if I'm wrong, but the Players that formed the dwarven community in Narfell felt the DM team wasn't really facilitating their group? That they were a bit contrary? Water under the bridge now, but I'm wondering what could have been done differently to help build those kinds of Player communities up rather than have them abandon the server in disgust.

    A
     1 Reply
  • A

    I've had a hard time figuring out how I would respond to this thread, because there's no easy answer, nor is there an answer that would make everyone happy. The previous administration took Narfell in the direction of making it Arelith-lite, that didn't help draw in new players. For as great as Narfell's devs have been, all of the new maps from the past 5 years or so haven't moved the needle either.

    I personally am for no TR and no RLG. Risk of death is supposed to be part of a persistent world in the FR setting, along with the penalties that come with it. There's room for debate about what that penalty should be, but TR and the gold that can easily be acquired with RLG has taken that element out of Narfell, making it feel less like an RP server and more of a power-gaming binge. As for magic/level, I'm fine with going low, but a couple others mentioned the mid 8-14 range, which I could see as an acceptable middle-ground. I would also be okay with a server reset, though I think there should be discussion about how that's carried out.

    Another thing as a community we need to stop ourselves from doing is not just think about what helps each of us personally, or our preferred cliques on the server, but what helps the community as whole. After the N'Jast War plot, the previous administration decided they were going to take the server in a certain direction that the majority of players did not want. As a result over the next couple of years we saw a mass exodus of players. One would think there would have been a reverse of course, but the staff stubbornly dug in. The Head DMs we had over that time did nothing, because they were more terrified of their friends on the staff quitting than they were concerned that Narfell started having a hard time getting above single digits in players. More and more players kept leaving, but they didn't care, because their group was happy and everything got to revolve around them. It should surprise no one they password protect their server. Narfell went from being a diverse, dynamic server that felt like a living, breathing world to the personal sandbox of a handful of DMs that only DMed for other DMs (some of which didn't DM all that much).

    Let me be clear - I'm not accusing any of the current ATs or DMs of favoritism. I just want to emphasize the importance of not placating to certain PCs or certain groups, because that is how the previous administration put Narfell in a hole that it has not been able to climb out of since 2008.

    1 Reply

  • I’m going to preface what I’m about to write by saying that I no longer have any skin in the game. The current environment isn’t something that holds my interest. However, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. If the current environment works for people, that’s great. I hope Narfell can thrive and be fun for as many as possible.

    The way I see it, there are two “phases” for characters in Narfell. There’s the growth period, where characters feel themselves out, gain levels quickly, and acquire equipment. Then there is the established period, where characters are done growing quickly, setup with their builds, and have some decent equipment.

    As it stands, Narfell is in essence a level 15-20 server. At least 80% of the characters on the server are in that range. Probably a higher percentage represented by active players. The “growth” period I mentioned above takes about 3 months for any player that’s been around for a bit. I know, because the last 3 characters I created hit 15 in that time period.

    If the server wishes to keep that environment, then the folks determining server direction should be aware that very large portions of the server are outgrown in 3 months. Many of the areas should be upgraded to handle higher levels and constructed to encourage teaming up to beat them.

    Frankly, I don’t see the level 15-20 environment changing. The only way to change it would to reduce the ability to gain XP so quickly (reduce exploration), and make death have an XP penalty of sorts, along with a server wipe. Otherwise, people will just continue to play their higher level characters. Since that was voted down, perhaps accepting the status quo might be a good start.

    I know people voted for a reduced TR, but after talking with folks on discord I think many would just as soon have a flat 25k TR cost, do as often as you want. People don’t like to move backwards. That’s not the environment I care for, but I think many do. If you’re going to retain people as well as grow, you need to cater to what will help do that.

    Me? I know I’m in the minority in many regards. I don’t care for the level 15-20 average. I prefer no TR, with a simple “Die and lose 5%” only option (I do think 10% was too much). I am nostalgic, but probably not for the period people think. I had the most fun from 2018 through about 2021. No TR, no RLG, and levels ranged between 8-14 for established characters. There were few outliers, but for me, that was awesome too. They were characters to be revered for their good luck, skill, and experience. They weren’t the norm. It made it more immersive for me. According to canon, the legendary Drizzt was 19th level. The way I see it, when the server is full of legends, nobody is.

    In conclusion, I suggest you embrace what you have an make the best of it. Tweaks here and there, replace mobs in certain locations to challenge the higher levels. So much of the space is wasted because they were built for levels outgrown in weeks. You only have one, perhaps two devs at the moment. Personality conflicts really squashed any hope of large and/or timely changes so unless the team handling Narfell grows considerably, it’s the only option I can see moving forward.

    Wishing you the best,

    Wolfhere

  • Dev

    Narfell Server Direction

    Hi - you may know me as Lence the dev, or Lence the unlucky Ranger, or as that idjit who always effs up something or other on the server.

    As a dev, I’m involved with a lot of process stuff, but I’m really like many of you; I want things to work and have fun while enjoying all the amazing different things Narfell has to offer. Like everyone else, I have ideas about what the server direction should be.

    PROBLEM:
    The server needs to focus on engaging and retaining new players. While legacy players are great to have, gaming and Narfell have changed over time, and we cannot hang onto nostalgia and try to service a niche group any longer, or we will die on the vine. So, what does the new player base look like, and how do we keep them? New players are much savvier about doing dailies and running routes, and min/maxing their PCs for top gain. They may like to RP, but it isn’t the end-all and be-all for them. We need to service both a casual and a committed player.

    SOLUTION:

    • We need to have a robust quest system in place that allows multi-tiered experiences for all types of players.

    • We need town criers/Adventurers’ Guilds to EDUCATE players/PCs as to what is on the server.

    • We need to have mini-modules on hand that DMs can run on a regular basis that intro players to the server, sorta like classic intro modules “In Search Of The Unknown” or “The Keep On The Borderlands” or “The Village of Hommlet”, things that can be listed in the Events schedule that offers players and PCs an opportunity to get together and be part of a curated experience that shows them the Server is there for the players, whether starting out or not. These should be “one-offs” that can be used by the DMs over and over, if need be.

    • If we want to keep the roleplay aspect of Narfell, we need to inform players upon entry that RP is a focus, and reinforce that it is encouraged and rewarded, while still giving them opportunities to run their circuits and get their fix if that is their gameplay.

    • We need to expand crafting so that when crafters hit certain levels, they will open up new skills (like being able to do race-specific crafting even if not of that race), and make crafting a skill that PCs want to do again with rewards that are commensurate with the time invested in this.

    • We need to have a better understanding of what areas are appropriate for certain levels, and build environments/encounters based on who traditionally would be moving through those areas. I propose defining areas for certain levels, and reworking those areas to better reflect what PCs of those levels would encounter.

    • Finally, we need to market the server. There are existing avenues to do so (NWN discords), but we have to find other avenues, whether it’s via socials, recruiting, the forums, or other avenues.

  • T

    What level of RP do you wish? Light, medium, heavy? Traditionally Narfell has been a heavy RP server.
    Always go with heavy and let PCs be themselves. DND at its core is based on the concept of engaging with the setting and each other. It requires players to get involved with the world they are engaging with. Solo play is viable for an online setting but if you are planning to keep some of those old fashion tabletop elements alive it really requires both players and DM's to be engaging in RP.

    How do you want leveling? Slow, medium, fast? Traditionally Narfell has been "ultra slow".
    Slow or Ultra slow is fine. I think the biggest concern historically on fast levelling is that most places do not quite have the best answer at 'high level' content. Further players unaccustomed to hardcore game rules find it very hard to deal with character deaths and begin to resist taking those types of epic level risks higher levels entail. That's not to say high level content is bad. It's actually very much part of large-scale epic campaigns! Slow is good if you provide engaging content that isn't mostly focused on dungeoning.

    What magic level do you wish? Low, medium, high? The old Narfell was low but recent Narfell is "medium".
    So this is a two parter: In general, when I approach online campaigns in FR I would recommend low magic in terms of crafting. I wouldn't allow any player crafting in an automated system. This helps stop players artificially inflating the market and ups the scarcity factor of these items. I would make it a very low percentage for magic loot drops so items imbued with magic are rare and are placed close to where challenges are to avoid people camping locations. I'd honestly place most magic in underground caverns or in places with many monsters. The main thing should be that PC's should campaign for magic. It's special, its unique and it can even be customized to the player in DM events. Leaving it out of random chance or constant spawning forces people to work together to face challenges and ups the risk factor for play.

    In regards to player classes I don't feel the need to restrict player classes for casters. However, you likely shouldn't be able to craft goods without a DM event (so it can be special and it can involve campaigning for the materials or the recipe). I also think you might want to simply enable cooldown times for resting. Memorizing magic takes hours of time in a regular pen and paper campaign. You need to be able to focus to do so. What I've seen done elsewhere is a cooldown timer for resting; Less cooldown time when you are in a bed/inn vs in the wilds. You guys are already very nice not having every spell that requires a component use one.

    What death penalties do you want? Minimal, medium, Harsh? The old Narfell has been harsh.
    Quite frankly i'm used to being dead til someone finds you and raises the funds to use a raise dead scroll or uses the magic to raise you. It's nice to be saved as a player. However, death has to mean something, especially if we have a PC that is a menace to society. If they die multiple times after being defeated by other players, it will eventually lead to bad player experience if they always get back up. I would say my last server allows raises but you roll to see if you return AND you lose 1 pt of con each time you come back. This makes it so you cannot be infinitely saved.

    What level of loot/gold do you want? Low, medium, high? The old Narfell was low but of recent it's quite a bit higher.
    I have no comments on this as your prices seem to be alright for these items from what i can tell.

    What type of Healing/recovery system do you want? Location Restricted, Different from Spell Recovery, or Elaborate equipment and restricted? Something else?

    I would recommend having healers people can pay for in certain locations. A healing skill that people can invest in and bandages that can get you incrementally there along the way. I do think healing potions, and such should be scarce but you can also find those via events or in harder dungeons.

  • Legion

    @speedy_z_ said in Server Direction Discussion Thread - 8-28-24:

    What we need is for Narfell to be a happy medium; a server somewhere between these two extremes. Not an overly hard core, permadeath RPing server with level caps and were everything is a struggle and/or nerfed. Or a boring, over the top “Monty Haul” hack n slash server where everything is handed to players on a silver platter and has a little RP tossed in for good measure (current Narfell).

    ^^^ Amen.

    The issue of TR and Death has come up on discord recently. Death is a place where we really need to strike that "happy medium" too. Too severe and folks quit. Too trivial and the place stops being exciting.

    At the moment we have a lifetime limit of 3TRs. I've heard that folks have abandoned Narf over the TR issue? I think that if these 3 TRs were reset every year or something, that may make help move toward a happy middle.

    Regarding the 3 TRs ... I missed the vote on that one. The TR issue is always going to feel a little meta - like you're a cat that knows how many lives it has left.

    DIAMONDS!

    I get the feeling TR was brought into the game because old school Narfell had a commitment to "recreate the PnP experience through NWN". If True Resurrection is available in PnP, then it made sense for it to be in Narfell. In PnP there is no physical penalty - all you need is a ton of diamonds and a friendly PC/NPC that can cast 9th lvl cleric spells. And this is the issue in Narfell - not the mechanics of TR, but the fact that gold is so plentiful that paying for a TR becomes trivial. A possible solution would be to restore the PnP requirement of 25,000GP worth of diamonds, but stop selling diamonds in stores. Make diamonds a rare drop. Have PCs quest for diamonds as a form of life insurance. Your corpse bag didn't have enough diamonds? Sorry, you're going to have to burn XP to come back from the dead.... or maybe wait for your friends to quest for enough to bring you back.

    I think this would be a great way forward. If folks were paying for TRs in diamonds instead of gold it could add a new dynamic to the place.

    ================
    EDIT

    A few extra thoughts about Resurrections costing diamonds instead of straight gold:

    • DMs should never give out diamonds. This helps prevent any appearance of favouritism, and also keeps things PC centric. The quest for diamonds would make logging in when a DM isn't around worth it. Right now I notice a fair number of Players only log in when a DM is running something. Nothing wrong with that but it'd be great if the place was worth logging into when a DM isn't around.

    • It'd be great if not only diamonds but also other non RLG loot items were added to the RGL table. So you may get a magical item, diamonds, other gem stones, extra gold ... open it up a bit so its not always a magical item.

    Other brain storm ideas...

    • On the issue of RGL items, make them require identification. This would make the lore skill and the Identify spell more important, and could act as a small gold sink when folks pay for an item to be IDed in the store if they lack the skill.

    • not sure if this is viable, but remove/reduce skill bonuses from enchanting and RGL. Make it so that if you want to use a skill you actually need to have the skill. In PnP magical items rarely have large skill bonuses, and if they do they're not as high or as common as they are in Narfell. Reducing the skills on items would make classes like rogue more valuable on the server.


  • There are only a handful of NWN servers that have consistent player populations.

    A few of these consistent population servers are high level and high magic - Like Arelith, CD, Nordock, etc. (1-30 or 1-40). While they can have decent RP at times, the focus is more on loot, levels, and xp - it comes with the territory for a high level cap. They also have very fast leveling and an extremely high turnover rate. Fortunately for them, players draw in new players, so their numbers remain high despite consistently losing a lot of players.

    There are also a few servers that are low level and low magic - Haze, EFU, TDN, Ravenloft, etc. They have a loyal following, cater to players who focus on RP (hard core RP), and they tend to have level caps to prevent high level PCs and/or “power builds.” These servers also tend to be permadeath (or have a very high death penalty). Recently, I’ve checked some of them out as Narfell alternatives, but they are almost too hard core, for me to enjoy. I suspect there are a lot of RP focused players that feel the same way and/or rage quit the permadeath servers after their favorite PC dies. Still, players draw in more players, so they survive.

    What we need is for Narfell to be a happy medium; a server somewhere between these two extremes. Not an overly hard core, permadeath server with level caps and where everything is a struggle and/or nerfed. Or a boring, over the top, “Monty Haul,” hack n slash server where everything is handed to players on a silver platter, death has no meaning, and RP is minimal (current Narfell). Narfell has not been a "heavy RP server" in years and most of the heavy RPers have left.

    We need Narfell to go back to its roots and become a gritty mid level RPing focused server, again. A DM friendly server where most of the PCs are mid level (8-14), but the potential is still there for players to get to levels 16+ (eventually) - if they want. A server where PCs interact, guilds form, crafters craft, enchanters enchant, merchants sell, etc. A server with a player driven economy. A server where death has consequences beyond losing a few gold pieces that can be easily farmed.

    By the way, I’m not talking about rolling Narfell back to 2006 (as some would falsely claim). I’m talking about current Narfell (with the new systems that have been developed), but toned way down. If we build it, people will come because there is a large gap between the above extremes and both types of servers have a huge turnover rate from dissatisfied players just looking for a fun server to play.

    We have tried the “Monty Haul” style Narfell with unlimited TRs for the last several years, and it has been a complete flop. It is time to try something else and follow a different path. It’s time to remember what made Narfell great and return to those roots...if it isn’t already too late.

    Here are some of my ideas for a better RP focused server...

    All characters start at level 2
    Drastically reduce explore xp (25% of current values with a hard cap of 250 xp for the most remote/deadly maps)
    Purple bosses drastically reduced by 80-90% (they will still be out there, but players will have to search them out and work for them)
    Combat xp is halved if you are solo and slightly increased by each member in a party (summons don’t count)
    Remove the 4 level spread for nerfing xp in a party and develop a fair formula that can’t be exploited
    Make combat xp difficult to get after level 15 (not impossible but difficult - far away, challenging, risky, etc.)
    DM pass out xp rewards and follow the published guidelines - DMs must act with integrity and follow the rules like the rest of us
    Reduced spawn populations every time an area is cleared if it is being “farmed” too often
    Modify the RP xp tick formula (slow it down in the lower levels and give a slight increase after level 15 - very slight)
    Increase RP xp tick amounts when in a party (slightly more than it is now)
    Pull back on the excessive availability of +3 items and make them extremely rare
    Fix or eliminate the broken random spawn maps
    Modify the random maps to reflect a lower power level server - Still dangerous but not over the top and easy to farm for excessive xp
    Reduce spawns like UBER bandits who could easily conquer entire towns
    Silence the “Rumor Mill” - It’s totally metagaming, OOC, and unnecessary
    Players and DMs can “rumor mill” all they want in Discord or forums - Keep it IC and player driven
    Cap RLGs to 9 points (max) except for a few of the most difficult static drops like LC (12 point max)
    Top items come from enchanting and/or DM drops (posted publicly to prevent favoritism)
    Group adventuring should drive the economy and PC to PC interactions should be encouraged
    Fix crafting so that it is relevant, again (reducing RLGs will help with this)
    Automate enchanting - Keep items at 9 points, but allow for very rare custom ingredients to give small and unique bonuses
    Allow PC casters to scribe scrolls (like we have with brewing - slight gold and xp cost)
    Promote guilds and orgs. and support them with realistic plots and/or opportunities
    ATs run the server while the DMs focus on DMing (in case the community hasn’t noticed what is happening)

    Lower levels will make it easier for DMs to run inclusive plots targeted for a majority of the playerbase.

    Lower level focus means more balance between casters and melee. At high levels, casters break the game and leave melee in the dust...in most cases. In low/mid levels, they are pretty equal (especially with abundant consumables available). Keep resting restrictions as they are.

    With a slower paced leveling, players will not feel as pressured to grind xp because most of us will be about the same level. Those that want to push the envelope are welcome to do so - at their own peril (keep 3 TR max and 5% RD xp penalty). Slower progression will make it easier for casual players to keep up.

    Everything is relative. A +2 or 3 item on a low/mid level server is still UBER for that server and something to be proud of. We don’t have to start passing out +5 flaming, vorpal swords for players to feel validated...do we? Think about it.

    Consider what is best for the server. This is not the time to double down on the poor decisions of the previous admin and make things even easier and/or pass out even more loot with the false belief that it makes the game more fun. Where do you draw the line?

    Excessive RLG drops allow folks fill their slots with “best gear” very quickly and then they do not need anything else (think “loot splitting” after an adventure where no one needs anything that was found - a very common occurrence now). So, then they just sell what they find to the NPC merchants and/or sell them in their player stalls to other players who will then fill their slots that much faster. Currently, player shops are FULL of amazing equipment that doesn’t sell because almost everyone already has top level gear - even low/mid level PCs (who then turn around and dominate low/mid level content). This is the direct result of excessive, high level RLG drops.

    By the way, if the community did vote to pull back and reduce the overall level of the server, there would have to be some sort of equitable pullback/adjustment on the levels and gear of the current PCs. Hopefully, not a full server wipe (after all changes had been implemented), but I’d be fine with a significant pullback. While it would be painful to me as a player, I think it would be best for the server. In the end, it will be for the community to vote on and decide...

    Good luck!

    1 Reply

  • I guess I'll put down my thoughts, yet again... But I'll start off with answering the sub-questions.

    Sub questions;

    Questions 1: What level of RP do you wish? Light, medium, heavy? Traditionally Narfell has been a heavy RP server.
    Answer 1: I have always enjoyed the heavier RP, BUT that isn't something that will change regardless of; Levels, Equipment, Staff. RP is what we do as players whither we are out killing, looting, sitting in the square, playing alone, or whatever have you. Narfell has always been and will always be an RP heavy server, and those that don't see this are blind or put bluntly... Stupid.

    Question 2: How do you want leveling? Slow, medium, fast? Traditionally Narfell has been "ultra slow".
    Answer 2: I am fine with slow, those that put in the time will obviously get ahead, and that is fine.

    Question 3: What magic level do you wish? Low, medium, high? The old old Narfell was low but recent Narfell is "medium".
    Answer 3: As I have stated before on many occasions; Old Narfell wasn't exactly Low Magic it was Scraps Magic, with Low Magic only for casters. Current Narfell isn't Medium Magic, it is Low Magic, with Casters being Medium Magic. Those that are without spells of 4th or higher are at a disadvantage and the current climate of the Server is: For those without spells of 4th+ need a caster for higher content, whereas the reverse is completely untrue. Caster's are self functioning and can do anything another class can do and do it better. How to fix this? Make it so that those that don't have access to 4th+ spells are able to have the gear they so much need. Because as it is one branch of playstyle is crippled while casters reign supreme for no other reason than we as a server think that, "Oh if we play as a group everything functions fine", when in reality, those casters just buff themselves and still do all of what they can already do solo, with a couple of meat shields in front, that may or may not end up dead at the end of combat, while casters can remain fine at the back without so much of a touch on their exp and can clean the fight up in the end by themselves.

    Question 4: What death penalties do you want? Minimal, medium, Harsh? The old Narfell has been harsh.
    Answer 4: Fix TR. End of story, I've preached this to death and beyond. Set the cost to 25k, leave it there, no ridiculous timer, no max per character, stop the bullshit. We want players? Well this is one of the main things that has time and time again made it so that players leave. KC with the "IRL Years" that some people loved to stupidly laugh at, PoisonLove & Critter as well as the rest of their 4-5 man group of players, as well as all the players that left with KC. When will we learn that it's stupid???

    Question 5: What level of loot/gold do you want? Low, medium, high? The old old Narfell was low but of recent it's quite a bit higher
    Answer 5: Loot*1? Depends. Gold? Low-Medium.
    *1 Loot; consumables, gear, enchant drops? Consumables? Raise the shit out of those. Gear? Lower, especially in the quality department. Enchant drops? Seeing as how those are already practically at 0%, I would say raise those. So that we can get more RP for the crafting and enchanting scene which has STILL gone completely ignored as of the shift to the AT staff. Which by the way, have ignored both the crafting/enchanting as well as class restriction removals that I was told would happen when the server got handed over, which I have been bringing up so frequently that I have driven even myself insane by this point.

    Question 6: What type of Healing/recovery system do you want? Location Restricted, Different from Spell Recovery, or Elaborate equipment and restricted? Something else?
    Answer 6: Keep the timer for after a full rest. Lower the freaking timer for interrupted rest, that 15 minutes for accidentally taping a WASD or accidently misclicking is absolutely stupid, it should have NEVER existed higher than 5 minutes at most and that's being patient. As far as resting anywhere? Let that shit happen, in PnP you'd be able to do that anywhere that a party decides even if it is a bad decision. It also makes those maps where they are huge and separated (Mino-Maze) less fucking stupid.


  • This thread comes nine months late, even later if we count KC's initiative when the clash happened.

    My opinion, considering I still have my registered player status, in one single post:

    1. Conciliate with other Narfell crew that splat the server. You are left out without a playerbase now, and what's worse, without actual devs that know Narfell core script systems and can script. Maybe it's too late, but whatever direction you want to implement without a codemonkey dev will fall in a black pit because all you'll be able to effectively do right now is only introduce more maps, and potentially break the server in the following iterations.

    With two AT memebers resigning in the past two months, I'm still trying to figure what was the actual change and why did they resign if the new server structure was supposed to be the best of the best across Narfell age.


  • I came to give Narfell a try because I saw a server review clip on Youtube and the level range was 1-20. I was looking for a break from a larger and high magic server, where you can get to epic levels in weeks or less if you knew what you were doing. After trying it out, I like the harder combat and slower leveling. The slower leveling lets me enjoy the RP and game more. I feel you can flush a character out through the hardships and the slower progression, rather than sit with a character with all this power but still not know exactly who they are. But that might be just me.

    I mostly echo what Robyn said earlier. I'm easygoing with server mechanics and just looking for people to play with and what feels fun in a game. Narfell has stuck with me. I like the DM interactions, stories, and the people I've played with so far.

    I like the heavy RP tilt on the server and the slow level progression. The magic level is fine, I just needed a break from the high magic with everyone running around with 30 wards at all times.

    The death penalty in my opinion is still a moving target. I do want it to be a penalty and not something trivialized, but we can't have people quitting because of the penalty. I'm still unsure on what my opinion is honestly, as it has changed after the TR vote. Perhaps a stat STR/CON reduction that returns to normal slowly after x number of long rests and lighten up on the XP loss? Again, I'm not fully convinced myself on what it should be as many more creative minds here can have a suggestion that I would be on board with.

    If anything, I'm in agreement with the rest system here. I think resting should be allowed regardless of enemies on the map. If you clear a map, then 0% chance of ambush and the more enemies on the map/or in proximity to the rest site then the greater odds of an ambush. This will help especially for the longer trips and the critical buffs many need to fight the hard battles out there that just wear you down.

    I don't know what else to say, really. I'm still level 10 and I know there is a lot that I've yet to come across or even try yet (such as gear enchantmenting). I guess I'm still in the shiny new Narfell phase and finding out new things all the time.


  • I wanted to contribute to this thread, but at the end of the day it's unfair to try and make Narfell more like the server I left Narfell for. I've found a home for my niche and I'm content with that. On another server the players start at lvl 1 and it's too difficult/impossible to solo.

    As such, folks meet up, RP, and create bonds as they try to gain xp, gold, and loot. 50,000gp is a veritable hoard and crafting PC's work hand in hand with Enchanting PC's to make the best loot on the server.

    My best recent memories have come from this other server, which weeds out any players who want more and more and more and they want it solo. My PC has had a bard song written about them and after their death a potion "Morgrum's Ale" was added to the potion crafting. RP was the focus and the dependence of PC's on each other facilitated it more than any server I'd played in many years. It's a system that attracts good RPers and rewards it through advancement based on dependency rather than soloing. Every class has a role and every other class need them. Kinda like a D&D campaign.

    I truly wish Narfell the best and I hope to see it's playerbase swell. It's just currently not something I'm interested in and not something I feel right about influencing when others enjoy modern Narf and I've already got what I want elsewhere.

  • Legion

    @hekatoncheires - I think getting a balance where everyone can find what they're looking for here would be great. I think that's achievable.

    Being focused on "RP" is a bit subjective. Traditionally, in D&D Players play the roles (role playing) of adventurers and heroes. It's 100% possible to play that role on this server without a DM. The areas have been set up for that. Your character can defend Peltarch by driving back the giants, or by keeping the ghouls in the sewars at bay. Heading out and farming a map doesn't mean your not RPing. I think in the past the team would crack down on folks who were farming, but if you can come up with some kind of IC reason for adventuring (easy!) then there shouldn't be a problem.

    i think the characteristics of an "RP heavy" server would be that your PCs actions actually have an impact on the world. So lets say Marty performed actions in game where she was creating a flower bed in Peltarch commons - If I saw that flower bed in the commons next reset, or even if they were temporarily inserted as placeable, but some vandal destroyed them - explaining why they weren't there in the next reset - then I'd know I was in an "RP heavy" server. If a group of PCs got together and decided to wipe out the kobolds in the swamps once and for all, and detonated 100 kegs of alchemist fire in their cave to utterly destroy it - if those maps and spawns were removed then we're on an RP server. Of course, Team would have to come up with something new to populate the area for folks to farm, but one of the important aspects of most role playing games is that the Player Characters actions actually mean something, and that the outcomes are determined by Player choices.

    But you're right - we don't want any particular direction to benefit one style of play while sapping the fun out of another.


  • An important thing to consider.

    One person wants "rp heavy". Very subjective term, btw. Another person like combat. Another likes to see the numbers on their sheet go up. Etc etc.

    What I often see from people is "I want it to be a certain way, so I want rules in place so OTHER people have to play the way I like."

    Focusing on that later "make other people play how i like" is a fantastic way to scare off most people.

    If you want a good server direction, it should boil down to "this is a lot of FUN" and "there are different FUN things available for different people."

    1 Reply
  • Legion

    THE MAIN QUESTION: "What kind of server do you want"?

    Sub questions:

    • "What level of RP do you wish? Light, medium, heavy? Traditionally Narfell has been a heavy RP server."

    Heavy.
    Narfell is "my server" because of the potential for RP. I've played on other servers where it felt more like a game and less like a sandbox where I could play out the role of my character.

    • "How do you want leveling? Slow, medium, fast? Traditionally Narfell has been "ultra slow". "

    Medium.
    Narfell has traditionally been pretty slow, but if you know the place you could power lvl pretty quickly. My main character hit lvl 16 a few days ago. That's pretty much an average of one lvl per year of play. I have another character who I would play when Rigby or other players who actually know the place were on. He is lvl 17 now and I've been playing him for about 2 years.

    Personally I feel it'd be good to slow it down a bit. After lvl 12 things start to get a little nutty. To challenge the big characters "bandits" on the road have ABs up in the 20s. The spells being tossed around are nuclear. With folks this powerful inhabiting the land you'd think there'd be some kind of impact to Narfells story. The bandits could probably steamroll over Peltarch's military for example. The Fire Giants could once again enslave the land. But these epic level spawns just sit on the side of the road waiting for adventurers to come along for some biff.

    I don't think it's a realistic idea to slow down lvling now, but I'd love it if the high lvl spawns were hidden away in ancient tombs, or in the under dark, or on other planes of existence. Having them spawn locally just feels weird.

    • "What magic level do you wish? Low, medium, high? The old old Narfell was low but recent Narfell is "medium"."

    Would love for Narf to stay Medium - or Low/medium.

    By "Magic Level" I guess we're talking about two things - the magic PCs and NPCs cast, and the level of magical items.

    Re spells getting cast, that's related to the first answer about character level. And if you've got high level casters in the land, if follows logically that you're also going to have high level magical items being crafted by those casters.

    I've always found RGL to feel a little weird though. I have two minds about it. As someone in a time zone that usually misses out on DM "events" I would rarely see fancy magical gear, so finding it on spawns or for sale in stalls has been fantastic. On the other hand - it does feel like magical items are falling out of the sky sometimes. I'd be okay with this if there were some kind of IC reason behind it. Maybe some kind of arcane storm reactivated old items hat had long ago lost their enchantment. So that rusty armour that Kobold was hauling around is now suddenly enchanted again ... or something.

    • "What death penalties do you want? Minimal, medium, Harsh? The old Narfell has been harsh."

    Medium.

    I hate it when my character dies. And I don't think I hate it because I lose XP or Gold. I just feel a little bit of grief every time it happens. We don't want the penalties for death to be so harsh that folks get discouraged and quit. We also don't want it to be so lax that death ceases to be something to fear. Finding some kind of middle road is the challenge.

    • "What level of loot/gold do you want? Low, medium, high? The old old Narfell was low but of recent it's quite a bit higher"

    Medium.
    We could probably lower this a bit. Gold and loot seems to be showering down from the heavens at the moment.

    • "What type of Healing/recovery system do you want? Location Restricted, Different from Spell Recovery, or Elaborate equipment and restricted? Something else?"

    Camping out can be rough. In all my time in the Boy Scouts and in the Army I never once felt that sleeping out in the wild was a breeze. Back in the Narfell old days we needed a 5lb bedroll in order to camp out in the wilderness. Not sure why we got rid of that, but I would like to see that kind of thing come back. Make camping out in the wild require effort from the players. That way Players would need to make decisions about their trips. Pack enough for a long adventure or ditch bedroll and rations so extra items and potions can be packed for a short, powerful adventures.

    It'd be great if the Healing skill increased the amount of healing applied out of combat. So if you use a potion or cast a healing spell, the amount of healing done could be increased by (Heal Ranks) % .. or something. Make skills great again!

    ===========================================
    EDIT

    Random suggestions - regarding magical items, I think making PC enchantments more viable would help boost crafting.

    Maybe if the XP could be offset by charged relic crystals that would make folks more eager to enchant. So let's say you've got 45 points in a "Glove" crystal. That could be used to reduce the points of a PC enchanting a pair of gloves by 9 points. Also - would be cool to lift the 9 point limit on PC enchantment. If there are items above 9 points in the world it makes sense that someone is enchanting them. Why not PCs?

  • D
    DM

    In the recent week's I have written about the direction I feel could find us a "niche" in the server lists that would appeal to more of the NWN as a whole then where we sit currently. I think less regulation, more freedom of the NWN platform with a high focus on roleplaying would draw more players. There are not a lot of servers that have DM's, we should lean into our strengths which I feel is DM's, sorytelling and roleplaying .

    Shifting the Server Direction: Embracing an Engaging Gameplay Environment.

    The landscape of NWN servers is vast and varied, with each server offering its unique flavor and experience. However, as the gaming community evolves, so too must the servers that seek to engage and entertain them. One of the significant shifts we are proposing is moving from a low-magic, slow-advancement server to a more dynamic environment that focuses less on stringent controls and more on player engagement and enjoyment.

    Rebalancing Magic and Combat
    One of the primary reasons for this shift is the inherent imbalance created by a low-magic environment. In a world where magical items and spells are rare, caster characters naturally hold an advantage over their melee counterparts. Casters can harness the power of their spells to deal significant damage, heal, or control the battlefield, whereas melee characters are often left at a disadvantage due to the lack of magical gear that can level the playing field. This imbalance can lead to frustration among players who prefer playing non-caster roles and feel that they cannot compete on an equal footing.

    By introducing more magical items and easing the restrictions on magic, we create a fairer environment. Melee characters can now find and use magical equipment that enhances their abilities, allowing them to compete more effectively against their caster counterparts. This change not only promotes fairness but also enriches the gameplay experience by providing a wider variety of tools and strategies for all character types.

    Removing Equipment Restrictions
    Another critical aspect of this shift is the removal of strict equipment restrictions that throttle character progression. This throttling hampers players' ability to compete and progress, leading to a stagnant and frustrating experience. By lifting these restrictions, we empower players to equip their characters with the best gear available, enhancing their abilities and enabling them to tackle more challenging content.

    This approach not only promotes fairness but also encourages exploration and engagement. Players are more likely to venture into dangerous territories and participate in challenging quests if they know they can find and use powerful items that will aid them in their journey. It creates a sense of excitement and anticipation, knowing that the next piece of gear could be the key to overcoming the next big challenge.

    Introducing Adventurer's Guilds
    To further enhance player engagement, we are introducing adventurer's guilds. These guilds serve as hubs for players to gather, share information, and embark on quests together. Guilds can provide structured activities and objectives, fostering a sense of community and cooperation among players. Whether it's hunting down a powerful monster, exploring a dangerous dungeon, or gathering rare resources, guild activities offer goal-oriented gameplay that keeps players invested and motivated.

    Adventurer's guilds also provide a platform for players to showcase their achievements and progress. Guild NPCs can recognize and reward members for their contributions, creating a sense of accomplishment and pride. This recognition can motivate players to participate more actively and strive for excellence, knowing that their efforts are valued and appreciated.

    Implementing a Player Henchman System
    Another exciting addition is the player henchman system. This system allows players to recruit and manage henchmen who can accompany them on their adventures. Henchmen can provide additional combat support, carry extra gear, and even offer unique abilities that complement the player's skills. This system not only adds depth to the gameplay but also ensures that players have the resources they need to tackle challenging content, even when the player base is low.

    The henchman system also encourages strategic planning and resource management. Players must decide which henchmen to recruit, how to equip them, and how to utilize their abilities effectively. This layer of strategy adds complexity and depth to the gameplay, making each adventure more engaging and rewarding.

    Enhancing the Hunt System
    Our existing hunt system has already proven to be a valuable tool for engaging players, particularly those who enjoy solo play. This system allows players to hunt down specific creatures or gather rare resources. Hunts provide clear objectives and rewards, giving players a sense of purpose and direction even when they are playing alone.

    However, the current hunt system can be expanded and enriched to offer an even more diverse and engaging experience. By introducing a wider variety of hunt contracts and missions, we can cater to different play styles and preferences. These could include tracking elusive creatures, collecting rare ingredients, or defeating powerful bosses. Additionally, we can add more intricate and layered quests that require players to solve puzzles, uncover hidden lore, and make strategic decisions.

    Expanding the hunt system not only provides more content for solo players but also keeps the gameplay fresh and exciting. Players will always have new challenges to tackle and goals to strive for, ensuring that they remain engaged and motivated. This continuous influx of new content and objectives makes the game world feel dynamic and alive, encouraging players to explore and interact with it more deeply.

    This next wall of text deals more with how to maintain the server as well as base ideas for marketing our "brand".

    1. Rename Server and Communication
      Rename the Server: Give the server a fresh, engaging name that reflects its new direction. Update the server login screen to prominently display the new name and highlight that changes have been made to catch players' attention.
      Announcement Campaign: Utilize forums, social media, and gaming communities to announce the server’s new direction. Highlight the focus on immersive role-playing and dynamic DM events.
      Community Feedback: Engage with current and potential players to gather feedback and ideas. Incorporate their suggestions to foster a sense of ownership and community.
    2. Technical Enhancements
      Update and Enhance Graphics: Implement graphic mods and texture packs to modernize the visual appeal. Promote any available enhanced editions of Neverwinter Nights.
      Improve Performance: Optimize server performance to reduce lag and ensure a smooth gaming experience. Regularly update and maintain server hardware and software.
    3. Enhanced Role-Playing Environment
      Promote Use of Forums: Encourage players to actively use the forums for in-character posts, event planning, and community discussions.
      Scrub Useless Clutter: Regularly clean up outdated or irrelevant content from the forums to make them more navigable and useful.
      Update the Wiki: Ensure the server’s wiki is up-to-date with current lore, character information, and game mechanics. Make it a go-to resource for players.
    4. Dynamic DM Events
      Regular Scheduled Events: Establish a calendar of regular DM-led events. Ensure a mix of story-driven quests, combat challenges, and social interactions.
      Spontaneous Encounters: Allow for impromptu events and encounters to keep the world feeling alive and unpredictable.
    5. Community Building
      Active Forums and Discord: Maintain active forums and a Discord server for out-of-character communication, event planning, and socializing. Promote respectful and constructive dialogue.
      Player Recognition: Recognize and reward outstanding role-playing and contributions to the community. Feature player stories and achievements in newsletters and on the website.
      Mentorship Programs: Establish mentorship programs where experienced players help newcomers integrate into the server and learn the ropes of role-playing.
      Monthly Newsletter/Public Address: Publish a monthly newsletter or public address discussing the server’s direction, new changes, and ongoing development efforts. Include highlights from the community, upcoming events, and other topics of interest to keep players informed and engaged.
    6. Content Creation and Customization
      Custom Modules and Quests: Develop unique modules and quests tailored to the server’s setting and player base. Encourage player contributions to the world’s content.
      Regular Updates: Release regular updates with new content, bug fixes, and improvements. Keep the world fresh and engaging with new areas, items, and stories.
      Feedback Loop: Create a system for players to provide feedback on new content and suggest improvements. Actively involve the community in the development process.
    7. Promotion and Recruitment
      Marketing Campaigns: Launch targeted marketing campaigns to attract new players. Utilize social media, gaming forums, and streaming platforms to reach a wider audience.
      Referral Programs: Implement referral programs where current players can invite friends and earn in-game rewards.
      Showcase Role-Playing: Highlight the best role-playing moments, events, and player stories through videos, screenshots, and articles. Use these to showcase the server’s unique experience.
    8. Training and Support
      DM Training: Provide comprehensive training for DMs to ensure they can run engaging and fair events. Offer ongoing support and resources for continuous improvement.
      Player Guides: Create guides and tutorials for new players on role-playing, server rules, and how to get involved in events. Make these easily accessible on the website and forums.
      Conflict Resolution: Establish clear guidelines and processes for resolving conflicts. Ensure transparency and fairness in all interactions and decisions.
    9. Server Rules and Policies
      Clear Role-Playing Guidelines: Define and enforce clear rules for role-playing to maintain a high standard of immersion. Encourage creativity while ensuring respect for the game world and other players.
      Fair Play and Anti-Cheating: Implement and enforce rules against cheating, exploiting, and griefing. Maintain a fair and enjoyable environment for all players.
      Regular Reviews: Regularly review and update server rules and policies to adapt to the evolving needs of the community.
    10. Sustainable Growth
      Scalable Infrastructure: Ensure the server infrastructure can handle growth. Plan for scalable solutions to accommodate an increasing player base.
      Continuous Improvement: Foster a culture of continuous improvement. Regularly assess the server’s direction, gather feedback, and make necessary adjustments to keep the community thriving.
      Long-Term Vision: Develop a long-term vision for the server’s future. Set achievable goals and milestones to work towards, ensuring the server remains relevant and engaging for years to come.

    Much of what I list would reqire active Dev's, so keep that in mind because without that skills set many of these changes could not see forward progress, however I think much of these ideas could be done with a change of mind set in how we see Narfell.

  • Peltarch Employee

    -What level of RP do you wish? Light, medium, heavy? Traditionally Narfell has been a heavy RP server:

    Always liked Narfell how it is, heavier RP with a pretty strong challenge in combat.

    -How do you want leveling? Slow, medium, fast? Traditionally Narfell has been "ultra slow".

    I like the current leveling pace truthfully, only way to slow down leveling would be to make the leveling journey feel more rewarding, and that includes more emphasis and fun on lower levels, rather than just the process being hobgoblins>gnolls>giants>fire giants/Arnath>Kront. Encourage events where people play low level characters. Also, add a Classic optional mode with a level 2 start with 0 access to explore xp, then give maybe 'milestone rewards' along the lines of 1 enchanting point per level, then 2 per level at level 10+, then finally 4 per level at 16-20, any of which can be used to enchant up to 20 point item from the DM table (with DM discretion of course)

    -What magic level do you wish? Low, medium, high? The old old Narfell was low but recent Narfell is "medium".

    I find higher magic items has been the great equalizer to allow non clerics/wizards to have significantly more power. I feel like Narfell DMs should transition from equipment drops to items that offer enchanting bonuses to make enchanted gear just as special. I'd be willing to go back to lower magic, but a lot of people wouldn't I feel like, and in the end more would just leave because of it

    -What death penalties do you want? Minimal, medium, Harsh? The old Narfell has been harsh.

    I'm content with current death penalties. As mentioned before allow for the creation of 'classic' characters

    -What level of loot/gold do you want? Low, medium, high? The old old Narfell was low but of recent it's quite a bit higher

    I think loot is fine how it is, just reduce the drop rate of non-chest non area boss loot.

    -What type of Healing/recovery system do you want? Location Restricted, Different from Spell Recovery, or Elaborate equipment and restricted? Something else?

    To be honest, I feel like it's fine how it is, HOWEVER, maybe add a few 'save zones' sporadically to allow rest. Maybe even make some rest zones require search to access. It will help with longer slogs like in the underdark, especially when your party is unfit to kill everything

    I'd also like to offer one idea if people would be willing to entertain it for a soft server reset if we want to lower the magic cap, an idea I talked with MexicanCookie years ago:

    Introduce a modified version spellplague. Move the timeline up. By doing this we can literally move forward. Give everyone 1 magic bag to fill up, with everything else being sundered/destroyed, so people can still keep the things they treasured but they lose. Bag of holding gets sundered/ and reset to 0. People can keep 10,000 gold per level. IMPROVE crafted items as I had written up a few times before using suggestions I offered before in forums and on Discord. I feel like this way things would be a lot more fresh.

    Give players the option to OPT OUT as well. Some players who want to keep everything can keep everything, but any players who are willing to sunder ALL their characters will be granted 1 custom tailored item up to 20 points for them made with the DM crafting chart.

    With this sort of reset, we can start letting crafted items truly shine, and things will feel fresher for players that don't opt out.

  • K
    DM

    The rest system
    The rest system needs to be paused, reworked and reimplemented. Here is why:
    • Clean map requirement. This approach is, IMHO, complete trash. It removes roleplay of
    securing an area, rping having guard/watch. It removes a lot of RP opportunities as
    melee characters do not need to rest to the extent as caster characters, but even
    roleplaying resting, even if not system wise needing to, are removed by this system.
    • Split maps. There are a multitude of maps that are split by an obstacle, such as a
    mountain or height difference, which makes resting, and the roleplay that follows,
    impossible. If the enemies can NOT reach the players, and the players can NOT reach
    the enemies, that side of the map is safe and secure, and rest should be allowed. The
    requirement that the whole map should be cleared is a level above in bad design, but if it
    is going to persist, this issue needs to be solved.
    • Campfires. Campfires does not work. There are many maps where you need a campfire
    to rest. However, they do not work. Instead of roleplaying, players are dancing around the
    campfire, trying to find the 1 pixel/polygon that allows resting
    • Rest areas. Some maps have designated rest areas. While those safe havens can exist,
    they should not be the only place where rest is allowed
    Conclusion
    The rest needs to be removed/rewind to its old state, where you could rest as long no enemies
    were nearby. As it is implemented today, and how the “rest areas” work, they incentivize a
    certain gameplay. Just as when I plan a trip with my EV, I need to check first where to charge and
    plan my trip around that. Running the cold/long road, I also need to plan about where I can rest.
    This is solo or with group. We NEED to get to an unsplit map, where we know, to 95%, there are
    usually no spawns. If we get stuck on a split map, then we are in big trouble. If running low, then
    we invis past spawns, running as fast as we can, no roleplay, to reach a safe place. Cause even
    that there are a mountain range between us and remaining spawns on the split map, we still, for
    some reason can’t rest.
    Scout relevance. As spawns and the numbers in their groups are as they are, players NEED to
    use any advantage that they can. With the upcoming limited TR, which is a topic on its own, ill
    get to that on a later day, it is even more important to use anything that you can if you want to
    progress. The rest system makes anyone able to know, OOC of course, if there are enemies. But
    also, IC, I mean, explain standing on the long road, one of the “U-turn” maps. There is 1 banished
    rider on the other end of the map, but you still can’t sit down and relax ALL THE WAY on the other
    side of the map. How to explain that IC? If players can rest when no enemies are nearby, scouts
    can do their work, because then you NEED to know what is ahead.
    Incentivised style of play. As mentioned above. The rest system incentivizes a “truck stop” model
    of gameplay. Just as truckers have a limited amount of driving time between regulated rests, the
    rest system does the same. Have knowledge about where maps are with no spawns, either being
    shown by another character or discover alone, and that where you need to go. If you, and your
    group, runs out of assets, spells or whatever, then either invis to that map, or teleport out and try
    again.
    All of this takes away roleplay.
    I guess that a counter argument to this would be “but then people will refresh their spells” or
    something similar and that this would make things easier.
    To this, I say:
    SO WHAT!?
    Do we want players to have a fun experience, amazing adventure, roleplay around the campfire?
    Or do we want players to NEED to get to the one safe area down the road, running as fast as they
    can, while invis or sanctuaried to get the most out of the duration? Oh you can backtrack after
    you reached a safe, restable, area, but if you backtrack, then you NEED to get to the safe area
    that you started from.
    Or teleport out.
    Remove the rest system and get it back as it was before.
    ((sorry for my broken English)


  • As it stands right now, the only strong desire I have is for Narfell to continue to be a heavy RP/Story based server. My desires around other things, mechanical, leveling, XP, death penalties etc. are often in the minority. I’d rather that those be put aside for whatever brings and keeps people playing. For me, the strong RP/Story ingredients are a requirement. The rest no longer matters to me as much, as long as it’s fair and fun.

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