Tower Shield Working Right?
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As with my question on Greater Magic Weapon, this might not be a bug, but just a misunderstanding of how the rolls to hit against AC are calculated. I purchased a new shield last night, a Masterwork Brass Tower Shield that also provides +1 to hide, walk silently, set trap, and tumble.
Today I equipped it, together with my Masterwork Umberhulk armor that provides similar skill benefits, and walked alone into the old Norwick ruins to try it out. Nothing spotted me right away, but while standing still, a ghost pig suddenly took a run at me and started attacking. As soon as I began to fight it, two more pigs and a ghost came running up to join.
Even though my AC was listed as 23 (19 without the Tower Shield) the pigs were consistently hitting me on adjusted rolls of 18. (I have saved the combat log to prove it). Also, when I checked my Character Sheet to see how the Tower Shield was affecting my skills, it listed my hide ability as -4, and my tumble as 2, when without anything my skills are much higher. Is the Tower Shield and its skill bonus working? If not, how does it work?
Login: AubreyMaturin
Character: Romulus Grey
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Well, considering it doesn't mean a lot for my big guy to go flat footed (I'd lose 1 Dodge AC and any Divine Shield bonus normally), I'm clearly not the expert I even half thought I was. Thanks for the clarification.
Action queues have always been the bane of my existence because I never know what will exit the existing queue and leave me standing around like a big dumb target, but then, I taunt a lot more than most characters (with a 22, wouldn't you?) Potions don't but you have to manually exit to taunt and opening a bag will, which is why anything I think I might need but won't fit in my already full quickslots goes in my base inventory and then people wind up snagging them when my potions merge with theirs upon my demise because they were in such a rush (seriously dude, someone made off with all of my barkskins).
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It's easy. The only skill/feat/whatever that makes you flat-fooded on use is taunt.
Casting spells, using bardsong, divine shield/might, drinking potions or whatever… doesn't make you flat-fooded. Ever.
If you are not clicking the attack button right after the feat is used (I recommend doing it 1 sec before the action is completed) that's where you get flatfooded until you click your target.
Trust me...I play a mage(spells), a cleric (divine might), a bard (bardsong), and I've never been flat-fooded using those abilities.Getting sneak attacked doesn't mean you are flat-fooded, it may also mean you are being -flanked-.
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In general abilities where your character waves his hands in the air (bardsong, wholeness of body, taunt, barbarian rage?) all leave your character flatfooted for the duration.
In fact you're only not flat-footed when you're actively casting a spell or attacking something. People seem to also say potions count; I haven't checked this.
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you have to seperate allowing a flanking attack bonus/being able to be sneak attacked with becoming flat footed.
as I understand it casting an offensive single target spell on a ranged creature while having a mob in melee range hitting you will open up for a flanking attack bonus (and thus sneak attacks). If you cast the offensive spell on the mob meleeing you however, it will not open up the possibility to become sneak attacked - nor will you get flat footed. Spaming aoe spells apparently counts as "target everything" and will also not make you open for sneaks (as long as the attacker isn't stealthed I guess)
Like Froach said, as long as you have queued up actions you won't be flat footed, but you might be sneak attacked or flanked attacked. tip is at the end of each casting animation, spam attack (click) the thing attacking you and you should be fine.
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Casting a spell or drinking a potion provokes an AOO.
Taunting on the other hand does make you flat footed.@4fda651e9a:
A character is considered to be flat-footed when:
- They are performing a non-combat task (which includes taunting).
- They are in ready mode (have not yet acted in a combat).
- They move outside the combat radius.
- They are entangled, stunned, or paralyzed.
- They are prone.
- They are sleeping or petrified.
- They are attacked by an unseen creature, unless the creature is heard and the character has the blind fight feat.
- They finish casting a spell and do not have another action in their action queue.
Once you've entered combat you shouldn't be flat footed other than that until you can rest again.
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Flat_foot
@4fda651e9a:
Specifics: Whenever the character makes a successful attack against an opponent who is flat-footed, cannot see them, or who is in combat with someone else, the character's blow delivers extra damage.
You'll be getting AOO against you due to casting divine shield, and that a sneak attack because you are not in combat with that creature.
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@1459bce2fb=RYM:
@1459bce2fb=cardamon:
They'll get a +2 for flanking, your AC can be reduced by up to -6 by a taunt, and if you go flat footed (like, to drink a potion, run, cast a spell, or activate certain abilities), you'll lose Dexterity's bonus and all Dodge bonuses.
This is not true. When you drink a potion, cast a spell or whatever, you are not flat-fooded. You simply give your enemy attacks of oportunity, but you retain all of your AC, be it dodge, Dexterity or awesomeness.
Pretty sure I'm right. Do you get sneak attacked if you cast a spell? I get sneak attacked when I Divine Shield, which is handled like a spell, which means I'm flat-footed.
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@e4b36c4fd7=Fraoch:
Armour check penalty doesn't remove tumble AC on Narfell.
Yup that's becaues it's based on ranks in it. If it wasn't based ont he skull and on your tumble score we'd ahve soem absurdly high AC dex based charicters on our server. looks over at Senria
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Armour check penalty doesn't remove tumble AC on Narfell.
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Incidentally, there is also an armor check penalty on the Umberhulk armor - which would further reduce your tumble.
Not certain if this actually affects AC gained from tumble or not, or whether the loss of AC shows up on the sheet if it does.
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@bfe993dfe9=cardamon:
They'll get a +2 for flanking, your AC can be reduced by up to -6 by a taunt, and if you go flat footed (like, to drink a potion, run, cast a spell, or activate certain abilities), you'll lose Dexterity's bonus and all Dodge bonuses.
This is not true. When you drink a potion, cast a spell or whatever, you are not flat-fooded. You simply give your enemy attacks of oportunity, but you retain all of your AC, be it dodge, Dexterity or awesomeness.
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@97cef446e7=beechhawk:
Yep ghosts can taunt, and taunt from two different opponents stack, you could have been down up to a total of -8 if they had good rolls.
No, they don't. It'll max at -6, and a better result will replace a poorer one.
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Yep ghosts can taunt, and taunt from two different opponents stack, you could have been down up to a total of -8 if they had good rolls.
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While I think I must do more testing, I do remember seeing the taunted symbol in the upper right corner, so that may be why the pigs hit me on an 18. (Ghosts can taunt?)
I was in combat with an echo while the pig hit me twice in a row with an adjusted roll of 18. Flanking bonus of +2 shows up in my log. My AC was 23, which taunt allows up to -6, correct?
AubreyMaturin
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@19b78569bb=AubreyMaturin:
I wasn't concerned with getting hit on a roll of 20. That happens all the time. But twice in a row I got hit on a roll of 14+4, when my base AC was 19 and I was actively fighting with the tower shield. The stupid pig did 6 damage with each hit too. It was kind of deflating for the first time I tried using a Tower Shield.
AubreyMaturin
Character: Romulus Grey
Those pigs have, one on one, only +2 AB. +4 meant flanking. You were fighting two pigs and flatfooted until you engaged. There's your problem.
Don't try to be stealthy holding a big wall of metal.
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1/20. Happens more often than you'd think. Also, take the probability of a successful hit by a given foe and multiply it by the probability of a critical threat (which you can guess based on the weapon) and you have the probability of a crit, with one exception. If they their AB + 20 will not normally hit you, but the auto 20 does, then they cannot crit you.
For example, let's say they can hit you on a 19 but no lower. Now assume their weapon has an unmodified Critical Threat range, nor keen nor Improved Critical. This monster will have a 1/10 chance of hitting you, and a 1/200 chance of hitting you with a crit.
Similarly, AB can be increased without a spell. They'll get a +2 for flanking, your AC can be reduced by up to -6 by a taunt, and if you go flat footed (like, to drink a potion, run, cast a spell, or activate certain abilities), you'll lose Dexterity's bonus and all Dodge bonuses, but only the Taunt will register on anything you can read.
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Could you have been taunted?
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I wasn't concerned with getting hit on a roll of 20. That happens all the time. But twice in a row I got hit on a roll of 14+4, when my base AC was 19 and I was actively fighting with the tower shield. The stupid pig did 6 damage with each hit too. It was kind of deflating for the first time I tried using a Tower Shield.
AubreyMaturin
Character: Romulus Grey
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Also a thing to remember. It doesn't matter how high your AC is, things will always hit you on a 20. Take it from someone that has a decent meatsheild, they always tend to roll them
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Ah, thanks for that clarification.
And Aubs, the basic story is, no matter how well made your giant wall of dense metal is, it's still pretty damn hard to sneak around with.
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Uncanny Dodge 1 works as stated.
"The character retains his Dex bonus to AC, even if caught flat-footed or attacked by a hidden or invisible creature."
People just tend to think that it means you keep Dodge AC when flat footed becuase of the name. The description of the feat says Dex bonus, and that's all it does.
