3. Languages

Languages


  • Two questions for the DM Team.

    Here are the relevant wiki pages:

    http://wiki.narfell-nwn.com/Languages
    http://wiki.narfell-nwn.com/Character_Starting_Languages

    Firstly, Thieves Cant.

    @81e554dc78:

    There is also the secret language Thieves Cant, which although it is not actually a class language, is usually treated as such. Although you do not learn it automatically, for a lot of rogues it is taken as a bonus language as in step 5. The Thieves Cant is a variation on Common that involves much discreet tapping, finger waggling, and the use of specific words to get a message across to the other person. It is possible to be apparently discussing the weather in Thieves Cant while simultaneously plotting to steal nearby woman's handbag. It's usually abbreviated to [tc].

    This states clearly that you need to purchase it the same as any other language. However, people appear to have been assuming that I'll automatically know it with my rogue levels. Wanted to check that this hasn't changed.

    Secondly, Lip Reading.

    This isn't listed. Is this purchasable?

    Edit: Question 3.

    I purchased sign language for one point. KB had said Star got it for one and said who the ruling dm was and I checked with them. But I can't remember for the life of me who it was. Shade edited it in to El's historical archives entry for me. The wiki clearly has it costing 2 though, so should I be allocating an extra point there?

  • V

    @6ffc3e90c1=Sethan:

    You might be surprised, but in the real world, different languages often -do- use different sounds for exclamations.

    Yep, for instance in Japanese instead of "Ummm" they say "Eeeeto". If I remember correctly anyway.


  • ^–-- Yes. -Everything- can be different. Even the most basic of onomatopoeia. While "Woooosh" in English might represent the wind, it might be "Fuuuuu" in one language and "Haaa" in another. And so on.


  • You might be surprised, but in the real world, different languages often -do- use different sounds for exclamations.


  • @a2aecb1dc1=Ace-of-Spades:

    Uhhhhm. I have always emoted (e.g. nodded or smirked, or whatever in brackets [] [b:a2aecb1dc1]outside of " <infernal>Text." Just to throw that out there.</infernal>

    Not pointing you out specifically. I've accidentally done this slip myself, of doing "(e) Oh" when my character has been talking in elven in awhile. Sometimes you're so used to putting up the (e), that it just becomes habit after awhile. No offense meant, but just pointing out something silly is all.


  • Uhhhhm. I have always emoted (e.g. nodded or smirked, or whatever in brackets [] [b:4a11a40af4]outside of " <infernal>Text." Just to throw that out there.</infernal>


  • There's other odd things used in languages. Examples:

    (inf) nods

    (e) Oh

    (g) Ah

    (uc) Huh?

    Correct me if I'm wrong if you can nod in infernal. Also if there's a word for Oh in elf, a word for Ah in gnomish, or a word for Huh in undercommon.

    😛

    I would guess nodding in infernal would just be a smirk or to chuckle darkly..


  • Good analogies, Andrik.


  • Sorry cringes Just my opinion. Honestly I'll be fine either way, with or without any new fangled shiny gizmos


  • head + desk
    That's not what I'm talking about.

    I give up at this point.


  • Well, after reading though all 4 pages I have this to say:

    I'd be all for the ciphering/garbling doohickey mainly because it would add the extra element, the feel of rare/foreign languages. Yes there would be people left out, those that do not understand the language. For me I personally run into these sorts of situations everyday, living in Toronto the big multicultural city it is, where people on the bus or at work are speaking spanish/portuguese(mainly at work)/italian/hindu/hungarian/french/swahili etc… and I dont understand a darn thing theyre saying except the odd swear or other odd word as in the case of spanish/french/hungarian. When it is important that I know what they are saying, as in the case of work, I simply ask them what theyre saying, and usually they politely oblige this anglo mono-lingual partial hungaro. I feel that this too would be the case IG.

    For example:

    Three elves are sitting by the south gate fire chattering away in elvish. In comes say a single, possibly several, humans/hins/gnomes/dwarves what-have-you.

    One of two things can happen, as in real life when you walk up to a public place where two or more people of common lingual use are speaking:

    a) They stop talking in their native tongue, include you in the convo and casually revert to common so as to not be rude or..

    b) They continue their private conversation amongst themselves. Maybe switching to common to add a comment or whatever when they feel like it. But mainly they keep speaking in elvish because, hey, they were there first by themselves and why wouldnt they speak in elvish and also why shouldnt they be able to talk about whatever in another language...after all it is a private conversation and the very act of using another language for a private language is, in my opinion, as good as having whispered it.

    Basically, I do not think it is right to cry foul because two people sitting by the fire choose to speak to each other privately in a native or foreign tongue.

    Would I do the same in real life to the people on the bus who are probably talking about some crazy outing they had that was awesomely awesome? Nope. Would it be neat if they were waxing nostalgic in English so I could eavesdrop and have a silent chuckle along with them? Yes. But they chose to talk about their private affairs in a public place with a foreign language, so I turn on my ipod, crank the tunes and read my book, or talk to my friend in english about our own crazy adventure etc...

    tbh, makes me wish I was more fluent in any other language since where I live at least all the anglo's are on stage for everyone to hear when they talk about anything. 🙂

    Sorry for the ramble -_-

    (My points are of course aimed at non combat/non event situations where being a d bag and talking only in elvish about say a battle plan or the impending invasion of drow etc... in a group of mixed race/language PC's would seriously annoy people/impede the event/story.)

  • M
    Legion

    A cipher system could eliminate one of my pet peeves. I hate it when people emote translating. When an elf rattles an off some elven and his friend translates for the rest of the group by emoting 'translates for the group' it drives me crazy.

    I want to shout "//CHEATER!" :lol:


  • Sounds cool if you can automate the proccess to acquire them Will. For example, the NPCs at the lobby could give you one if you're elegible and don't have one already, and save tons of DM time.


  • New spells get a little tricky, as to implement them properly requires a TLK table edit (which means a hak).

    I have some ideas on how to get around that, but it would basically require creating a widget that would be used before spell memorization, to "store" the uses of the spell.


  • @4af5563856=Zyphlin:

    Card, I get your point that i'd OOCly affect your play by making it less fun.

    Do you perhaps see the other side of the coin that your position on that is not an absolute truth? For others, they're saying it would INCREASE their fun OOCly and make the narrative of the world more interesting to them, for the situation to occur where when words they can't understand are spoken that they're really actually unable to understand it.

    I can completely see and understand why some people would find it more fun to be able to read everything. I don't think that's "wrong". But I also don't think that's an absolute truth. I think its equally legitimate to find it MORE fun to not be able to read words their characters can't read and the change in the way the game feels based on it.

    As to comments of fairness that's gone through the post, I don't think "fairness" really plays into it. I don't think there can be 100% "fair" ruling regarding language without narfell going to .haks, and I'd put money on the Browns winning the Superbowl before I'd expect to see that happen after how long its fought going that direction. Right now its "unfair" to people who would like to have their foreign languages actually blocked and "unfair" to people who would want languages to be more stringently enforced. I don't think "fairness" really should be the prime factor on whether or not something like this happens because frankly there's not going to be a perfect "fair" option with regards to this situation.

    We all like different things. The crux of this is and will continue to be if the majority likes the idea. Right now, it looks a like a fairly even split, but that's hard to tell as even the one I suggest is in the minority, my own position, is quite vocal. Five pages of as much "Whoa, let's think about this for a second!" as there is "Neat, we could do this this and this."


  • @6ab2d41943:

    Tongues
    Divination
    Level: Brd 2, Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 3
    Components: V, M/DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: 10 min./level
    Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
    Spell Resistance: No

    This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature, whether it is a racial tongue or a regional dialect. The subject can speak only one language at a time, although it may be able to understand several languages. Tongues does not enable the subject to speak with creatures who don’t speak. The subject can make itself understood as far as its voice carries. This spell does not predispose any creature addressed toward the subject in any way.

    There is an arcane material component consisting of a clay ziggurat that needs to be broken upon pronouncing the spell (meaning -only- arcane casters need it. Divine casters may ignore the material component).

    A level 12 cleric/mage/wizard/etc could have the effect for 2 hours per cast. These should probably be real time hours for the sake of RP, and not ingame hours. The game passing of time is just that, a game mechanic built around combat, not RP - eg, nobody in reality manages to say just 3 sentences in 2 hours time. In fact, 2 hours of real life typing are still worth much less than 2 hours of real life spoken communication.


  • @97d16c96a6=Fraoch:

    I'm sure there's something funny about tongues. Let me see if I can find out what it was.

    While you can understand several, it only allows you to speak one chosen language. In addition, it's only 10 min/level, so about 2 hours for a very high level cleric. However, it's range touch, so you can grant the ability to someone else.

    Also, if you are an 11th level or higher Wizard or Sorcerer, you can cast Permancy, spend 1,500xp, and make it permanent on yourself.


  • I'm sure there's something funny about tongues. Let me see if I can find out what it was.


  • Well, if in one thing we agree, is that it's up to Devs/DMs decide what is best for the server and what they want to spend their time with.

    I would feel very ripped off, though, if tokens were implemented, but not the rightful PnP spell to counter them (Yes, yes, Tongues). You may find it doesn't bother you, I'd find it aggravating.


  • I am sure both sides of the equitation will be looked at by the team before any decision is made. Worry not Narfers….we listen…kinda like Frasier when I say it like that…but you get the drift