Racial languages, learnt instantly?
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@fbd0414dca:
Reading books certainly works - assuming you have access to "A beginning primer on Elvish for the Common speaker" or the equivalent - of course, that gets you only the written language not spoken, and I know of no such books currently IG.
Yolande has one for Dwarvish, though I may have given it to Drelan before she retired. Regardless, it was an item on her character sheet, and actually had content.
As far as RP goes, for many of my characters it's been more fun NOT to understand. Maya only knows common, Uthgardt, and a smattering of Damaran. If friends in a party started talking Elvish discussing matters, she would often walk away as she considered it very rude.
I still wish a token system were viable. Yes, you miss out on some of the funny comments made in other languages, but you should.
"Varak a kol …."
"Net, varak ki marr ohlar vik torr, ki Maya!"
sidelong glance at Maya and snickersPersonally, I think the above is far more fun than actually understanding what was said if you don't know the language. A system with language tokens would enforce it.
As far as training goes, someone can spend the time to learn other languages. I think that's perfectly reasonable. However, let them put the two points into it rather than Discipline or Stealth, because they're busy learning Orcish rather than practicing with their weapon.
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As I said, I may be wrong
I don't have books on me but its been a number of years since PNP and god knows sometimes house rules are so ingrained in you that you think they're actual rules. I'm sure you two have the right answer on this one.
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It is 1 rank for spoken and the rules state that any literate character who learns a spoken language automatically learns the written form.
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I don't think I ever read in 3e about 1 rank for spoken language and 1 rank for written form.
From what I've known it's a "class" skill for bards (1 point per rank = 1 language) and "cross-class" for everybody else (2 points per rank = 1 language). Barbarians are illiterate unless they multi-class or spend 2 skill points. Literate characters can read and write any language they can speak.
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-edit- Appears I was wrong. Curse house rules and inability to PNP for a long time -edit-
In regards to why Dwarven and Elven are common…look at the adventuring population of Narfell. There are an exceedingly large amount of Elves and Dwarves. Don't forget for older characters too, there was an Elven outpost. And there is a dwarven stronghold. Out of all the demi-human races, it makes perfect sense that adventurer's that speak other languages would want to know these. In all my time of playing D&D these were two of the most commonly taken languages as well. Want an IC reasoning why adventurer's would learn these languages aside from trade and other such things...how many times do races try to talk in their tongue behind peoples backs for mundane or more serious things?
Remember, adventurer's tend to be the exception to the rule. While most commoners likely don't know more than one language, its not uncommon at all for adventurer's to know at least one other.
In regards to Orcs, again, this makes some sense for the same reasons above to a lesser degree. For older characters it makes a ton of sense, due to the fact that at a time there was an exceedingly large Orc population present in the southern part of Narfell (and now seems to be one growing in the north
). Its good to know the language of your enemies.This is also why, from what I've been able to tell, goblinoid seems to be up there as the "most common" monster languages because its spoken by the three forms of goblinoid (Goblin, hobgoblin, Bugbear) which previously covered almost 2/3rds of the server.
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Exactly
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good discussion.
I think we (or at least me;) have been enlightened by these replies. Racial,area and bonus languages are gained in the beginging. Totally new languages can be learnt, if skill points are spent into "useless" skill and roleplaying the actual learning ingame is encouraged (instead of forum rp)
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@a4af550b9e=leinad888:
And no, Bards are not the only class that can take additional languages as they progress. The skill is only a CLASS skill for Bards, any other race can take it (I think, possibly not Barbs [dont have a PHB nearby atm]) they just have to spend 2 skill points per language rather than 1.
I don t really know if only bards can learn new languages or not, but it truly would make no sense, since learning a new language can be done even from listening (for some time, of course, not at once) to native people speak, and other ways too…
I believe that the token system would be cool, but the way it works now should suffice, let s trust other players
and make the game fun.
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Yes I also find it a bit annoying since the ICC grow almost every party seems to have someone who can understand and speak orcish perfectly.
I do wonder who teached them or why I do not see those hanging around in a library and when I review their character descriptions there is no clue of how they could have learned it.
Dilinus Gest for example made it very clear (in his character description) why he can speak hin. He lived about fifty years in a monastary together with halflings. From his everyday contact with them he learned to speak it fluent over the years.
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or Orcish for that matter….
Everytime halfer speak among eachother in orcish theres always some wise guy nosing in... :x
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@fa47e277c1=M_O_B:
What irks me a little is how almost every character seems to be able to speak each and every language they know without a single mistake >.>
Or how it seems every character knows elven and dwarven.
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What irks me a little is how almost every character seems to be able to speak each and every language they know without a single mistake >.>
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I'm not keen on the idea of PCs learning skills during downtime. Yes the system allows for it with all skills, but from an RP standpoint, it leaves a lot out.
For learning languages, simply listening to native speakers (without having an active tutor) works, assuming you have a few years - adults learn in that way much more slowly than children.
Reading books certainly works - assuming you have access to "A beginning primer on Elvish for the Common speaker" or the equivalent - of course, that gets you only the written language not spoken, and I know of no such books currently IG.
Having a tutor works best - and RPing that with another PC can be a lot of fun. I'd rather see PCs do that than magically know a new language after leveling because they spent a couple of skill points and "leaned it during their downtime."
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Well remember, our PCs do a lot of things when we're logged off (and logged on) that we don't RP. Saying that you had a tutor or that you just spent a lot of time listening to native speakers and reading books are valid ways of learning the language in Narfell since there is so much time that isn't accounted for.
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That's true. I usually do the RP/studying before spending the points on levelling up, but the other way could be equally valid.
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I am pretty sure I read somewhere here that you also need some IC way to learn a new language even after spending the points apon levelling - it just doesn't magically and instantly happen without some expense and/or tutoring.
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Ah yes…. I meant to say "new language" not "new bonus language." I stand corrected.
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As I recall, you can only take 'bonus' languages at creation from the list in the FRCS.
The FRCS has a table of character regions and lists what languages your PCs knows by default and what additional languages your PC may take upon creation.And no, Bards are not the only class that can take additional languages as they progress. The skill is only a CLASS skill for Bards, any other race can take it (I think, possibly not Barbs [dont have a PHB nearby atm]) they just have to spend 2 skill points per language rather than 1.
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Have a postive INT modifier OR have dumped points into the speak language skill (we usually dump into craft <something>around here for that).
You can always learn a new bonus language, but after creation, only by spending skill points (supposedly).</something>
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@80d7935548=Dorakhan:
PHB lists common and orc as automatic languages for the half-orc, much like elven is an automatic language for a half-elf. Each race, save for humans, also gets their own race's language as an automatic…
...Please note that the intelligence bonus towards bonus languages really only applies at character "creation." Also note that the speak language "skill" is a class skill for bards and bards only...Thank you for commenting this thread Dorakhan.
So if I understand correctly, If anyone claims to understand other racial language (and is not a bard) I have to presume that they have at least some positive INT modifiers so they could buy that specific language during character creation.
So, bonus languages are decided only once, during character creation. After character has been created no-one can learn any extra languages along the way right? (only bards can, but they are not worthy of mentioning:)
This conversation is very good as I think that there has been multiple different views of understanding/learning different languages.
