Give aways
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Is there any rules and or limits on what you can give away to another players PC? Given it make sense? Like a son or daughter or another loved one or based on just years of friendship.
Gold?
Weapon n' armours?
Items?
potions?
House?
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I've been AWOL for a bit, but have been a VERY long time player of Narf (like CD and a few others that sounded off in this thread, as well), and I think everyone has good bit of input here.
I think overall, Rei said pretty much everything I could have, because this is how I see my main PC as well… she's almost 12th level, and I see her more as a teacher to the newer PCs. She's a very giving person, and will help others to the best of her abilities.
I've seen some amazing gear given out from DM events in the past, heck, I've gotten some of it as well. As far as usefulness of the items (call it powercreep, whatever you will), of all the items I've had (and given to apprentices, etc) I think the one piece that sticks out in mind most was a piece that WAS gifted to me back when I was a weeee baby PC. It was a set of armor that was in no way overpowered for the level I was at, but that's neither here nor there.
The point of my wall of text was that SINCE we Narfers pride ourselves on RP and lifelike characters, that piece of code.. those 1's and 0's actually had sentimental value to me. I used that armor forever, not because it was super strong, or because it looked awesome, but because it affected how I played that character. There was a sense of pride in the fact that an Elder of the Circle at the time saw enough promise in my character to gift her with what was a treasure to them as well.
And from what Vander was saying, as a DM on (perma?) Hiatus, I've made that really nifty piece of gear for a player in the toolset, imported it, and seen it passed over because the PC had gotten something "better" a day before. I do think checking with the DM staff is indeed the right way to go in this respect. The rules aren't really there to spoil anyone's fun.
While I am on the topic of DM'ing... I was a member of the DM team when Telli's will was being handled.... and while I liked the idea in theory, it was a massive headache for the staff. If we could find a way to do wills without having to track down PCs, wait for players to log in, etc... then I think the idea is great. Without this in place though, it makes for a Charlie Foxtrot. (those who don't know what that means, /google.
)As for people wanting that "special" piece of gear... there is always the option to talk with the DM staff and see about a quest for said item. The Crafting system (Both the mundane and enchanting system) were put into place to give PCs a chance to just "buy it now". I'm hopefully not stomping any toes here (crafters, be gentle
), but in my opinion, questing for an item is the better way to do it, because then, when its all said and done, and the dust clears, you also have a story to relate to that item.And after all, the Story is what we're really playing for, isn't it?
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Many great points in that post. +1
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In regards to the crafting system, the enchanting system, and magic items in general and giving stuff away…
Most people know me and know how I play. Val is generous IC and will try to help people out where possible. That said, I do have a few rules I generally abide by.
1: Never give characters level 5 and below anything you can't buy in a shop. It's actually harmful to them, because it takes away the joy of advancement and getting cool stuff. The gaining of shiny things is a lot of fun, and taking that away from a player is bad.
2: Only give out loans to people who you have an IC reason to do so. Val does loan crafted items to people on occasion because they simply can't afford to pay for them in full at that point, and the crafted item will allow them to survive better and thus repay her sooner. She's also lent out thousands of GP before, given away tens of thousands of GP, and spent even more on plot related events. For her, gold isn't that much of an issue. That puts her in the minority, I know, but I would rather help other people enjoy the game than hoard everything for myself and giggle.
3: Make sure you keep track of loans, and ask regularly about them. They're loans, not giveaways. This keeps things honest and above board. I have a list in Val's journal that I can view whenever I log in, so I know who owes what.
4: Accept trade of goods and services in place of gold. I have regularly accepted magic/crafted goods in exchange for part or all of an enchantment or crafted item purchase. They're worth far more than gold, and I do both enchanting and crafting to help out others. I've also allowed others to "work off" their crafted goods by hauling ore and helping me get to said ore. As someone else said, it's not overly nice to charge people 13,000gp for some MW Steel Fullplate if they helped you get the components for it.
5: When someone does something that you appreciate, try and show them that appreciation. At times she has paid low level characters for going out to vanquish evil (a couple of thousand GP split between a party for clearing the kobold caves was a recent one) and when another PC gave his life so that she could survive, she equipped him as best as she could. He refused to accept the goods for free, but did accept trade and part gold, so she gave him a better deal than she otherwise would have.
Note that these things she does are based on IC judgment. Certain people will get more from her than others will, simply based on IC relationships, and if you're a devotee of the Red Knight, there's not much she won't do for you. But that's what roleplay means... acting in a consistent way with your character's personality.
If my cleric ever gets to be in a similar position to Val (in terms of wealth and level) he probably won't be anywhere near as generous as she is. Not because he's not a nice guy, but because he's more concerned with how people live their lives. That means lots of RP and talk about issues rather than equipping them for battle. He's a follower of Mielikki, not a goddess of war
In addition to these things, my opinion (and I apply this to myself, not anyone else) is that once I have a PC past level 12, I expect them to be a pseudo NPC. That is, they're beyond what Narfell is aimed at, and they become a hero that other people look up to... not someone who necessarily goes out to vanquish evil all the time. Part of that NPC-dom is helping the younger adventurers achieve their goals and become heroes themselves, so that they can in time help younger adventurers like she has helped them herself, and how she was helped when she was younger.
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I feel you on that one, Celadine.
Kwyn, that feeling doesn't go away at higher levels. My 10th and 12th level characters, respectively, can't do much without a group, and there's very little that gives them XP without being very dangerous. Particularly in a group. At Sirion's level, so far only Enraged Umberhulks, Outer Spire Giants, and Ettin Shamans give XP. And not much (well, okay, the shamans give 250XP…but they're really scary, and I have to prep spells specifically to take them out without a group...and at best I can manage two of them with a high risk of everything going pearshaped...and it would take 280 of them, not accounting for the sliding XP scale, for me to level) I don't even know which others do because the ones that do I've only fought in groups and usually in groups sometimes with Level 15-16s, because they're that dangerous.
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Anyway fine by me…
to CD
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I am a relatively new guy speaking, (or really really old guy).
i don't really get the crafting union anything, it makes no sense to me IC to go out and be in a group of people and literally fight for life and death and then not want to do whatever you can personally to make the people you fight with as strong as possible.
I know its power gamish, but i suppose old timey warriors were like that. A lot of the crating materials are even gained by taking a huge group out so someone can mine, so you have this huge group of friends that take you out so you can make armor but then you have to charge them these huge prices.
The balance on the server is at the top end, and believe me being level 6-9 is so brutally impossible to do anything on your own, that just having a few advantages. I need 67 xp on unen and a group of three of us just couldn't go anywhere without a huge sturdy front line guy.
As for the resetting, I think it should be more drastic, there are too many people AFK that just show up when something happens, that hold important spots that basically make it impossible for those that log in to advance socially.
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Not yet
I think it should be the OOC responsibility of the "deceased" to distribute said items so that the DM's don't have to deal with it. Having been on the receiving end of Tellis will, I know what a pain in the ass that must have been.
The items in question should either be in a PS where they can be removed by the recipients, or given to an executor (PC) who will distribute. Makes it more IC I think.
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Good lord… its like opening pandoras box...
.. and yes if I make a will for any of my PC I should also ask the DM if he/she would like to handle it...
...anyways who can refuse handing out 20 000 gp worth of vanity designed outfits.. I mean Mystics wardrobe is pure gold.
It cost her 1000+ gp to change each of them to what they are... and they are worthless .. kinda hilarious
...what could be the harm in that... more than it would take up lots of space in a chest storing them. The heir could burn them... once he/she gets them...
Seriously arent we done discussing this issue?
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I want to state right now that if anyone is making a will, I will not be left holding the bag when it comes to handing out willed items. I did it once, and I will not do it again EVER, end of story. I hope that is clear enough.
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The only 'ask' here is that people ask a DM before giving away something nice. I've done this many times, and was never told 'no.'
I don't see why its such a roadblock. No one is saying you can't do it, those in charge are just saying "check with us first."
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From my personal point of view, Robyn's idea seems nice.
Would give porpouse even to acomplished chars again.And also, rose hit the nail on the head there.
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Just to clarify my statement a bit,
I would buy as much gear as I could from crafters…if:
They are accessible
The process is not overly complex
I have a chance to afford their goods
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@926d5dda88=Emerwyn:
Besides, there is nothing in the rules against selling a crafted item to a friend, and then donating them an amount of gold to help them up… let's say, about the same amount of gold that the crafted item costs.
Actually … I would say thats just a clever way of breaking the rules.
Being in the crafting business is painful enough as it is without it being made pointless by folks who eliminate demand for your goods by giving away uber stuff. That's not fun. And cruising through an area that should be challenging for you but now isn't because your pal just gave you some uber gear for nothing ... that's fun?
I don't mean to sound judgemental. Some folks do things for fun that I'll never get. As long as our fun isn't pulling the plug on somebody else's fun it's all good.
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Heated debates are always good–they are one of the only ways that any organization can grow.
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… well all this... only b/c my question posted. I just wanted to know if I perma kill my PCs can I give my PCs stuff away in a will. Based on the above, I can, they dont have anything that will overthrow any balance, however, if uncertain speak w DM
By that I think this thread can be closed I never intended it to be a "heated" debate
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I agree with this statement ^
In addition to my comments above, I give a +1 to this observation.
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My own thoughts on this was initially to just say that the rules are fine and in no need of alteration - when in doubt, just ask a DM. With the right reasoning, a solution that works out for both player and overall balance can nearly always be agreed upon. I still think this holds more or less true, but - it strikes me that the overall tendency to want better equipment, faster, has to do with the smaller server population, and fewer characters of low level to party with. Having fun on Narfell, to me, is all about interaction, and ~of course~ you want to adventure and go places with your friends, who most often happen to be higher in level than yourself. Mundane equipment is fine if you hang out with lowbies to dare the swamps or goblin woods, but not if your buddies keep going to more dangerous places. Perhaps a more generous view on what constitutes balance would be something to consider, in that light.
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Taking this opportunity to advertise the suggestions thread!
Go update your posts to include whatever you're learning from this heated discussion.
Disclaimer: Please continue to post your own opinions without references to anyone elses!
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Speaking as a relatively new player, and one who the last thing I want to do is get caught up in the Politics of the server, let me briefly say this….
What do 99% of all RP games include in their systems....
Advancement.
It is part of the game, and one of the driving forces why people play. I see it as two sides of a coin, RP and Advancement. You need both. Without one you have mindless grinding and power-gaming with no purpose other than to obtain "Stuff". Without the other you have a glorified chat room where everyone talks with a funny hat on.
That being said, making things challenging is great, it means a greater sense of accomplishment when the task is completed. However, making things IMPOSSIBLE, just leads to people feeling like no matter what they can never achieve their goals.
Example: My spellsword wants armor he can cast in without a huge chance of spell failure. To do this he has to get someone to craft the armor for him (or learn to craft himself), the price for a set of masterworked steel plate is 13,000 gp! Thats only 3K less than a house. Assuming I can farm enough monsters to get this money to pay for the armor, I still have to then enchant it, for more money, submit my enchanting request, hope I make my roll or lose the item, and then wait for a DM to give me the item IG.
In the end how much more powerful will I be? My AC will be the same, as will my HP and attack bonus. Monsters will still be able to hit and wound me the same as before. True now I can cast a fireball while wearing my armor and only have it fail 1 in every 4 times....but how much more powerful does that make me? So after the expenditure of many many hours of play to earn 13000 + gp to pay for the armor and enchantment, and the time spent waiting to receive the item does it justify my increase in power?
I say no, it just makes me want to walk away from the idea of my Character Concept, because it is so much work to be able to have one little perk. I do not want things on a silver platter, but I do want at least a 50/50 chance of being able to obtain them.
Every hero needs a reward, now and then.
