OOC: Sam's Hill Marker
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gently nudges the whole issue away from OOC commentary and back to IC reactions
Betcha a hundred coin there's an IC reason for everything. And Dwin did make the comment that folks should PM him if they're going down to investigate, so….
PM him! And let's do something IC about it, eh?
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some of you maynot like this example, but i am trying to make a point:
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statues of Saddam were well maintained when he was in power.
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when he wasn't, they were promptly removed and destroyed.
For the UMPteenth time, take all this IG and stop complaining about it OOC. The fact is that some people (more than many of you think) didn't like Sam. shurgs Sorry to be harsh, but thats the case. Go with it. If you want to complain about this IC there are ways to go about that. Do something about it.
Whether the silly rock stays or not, there is a marker on the map that says "Sam's Hill".
I live near a hill called "Osborne Hill" in RL. There is no sign anywhere that says "John Osborne built a house on this hill and slaughtered a bunch of Pequot Indians while he was here" but yet people still call it "Osborne Hill" 300 years later. Thank heaven for RL bards.
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shrugs
Zyphlin is right, this just makes me feel sad.
The marker is heavily roleplayed with in Narfell, and there has never been even a teensy bit of a reason for seasoned players who are standing there relating it's past to newbies to contact a Dm about it.
I have done it more than on a half dozen occasions myself, as newer folks can attest…20 minute long stories of the eastlanders, Sam's vigil on the hill, Rick the Swift and Rass, the marker is an excellent lead in to these tales to youngsters.
And it has nothing whatsoever to do with Sam himself, who pretty much always just ignored my characters. :roll: This is just a good, highly appropriate marker to a whole "time" in Narfell's past that we all remember fondly.
I have also RPed pulling weeds around it, and have seen two others do the same thing. It has only existed for less time than a Vietnam age memorial, so, of course, no one has RPed rechiseling it…why would they?
It's a little silly to want characters to page a Dm everytime they interact RPingly with a placeable, isnt it?
The idea that in-character actions have in-character consequences ought to extend to the way towns set their laws and what their guards "do".
If the marker has been defaced, and guards set to keep anyone from fixing it, players should react appropriately to Norwicks actions.
I should think this sort of thing would be a horrific publicity relations disaster to Norwick.
"Halt! Dont restore that defaced memorial for free on Sam's Hill, you stinking stone mason!! I'll haul your ass to jail!!"
I mean….shouldnt Norwick be arresting the person defacing the stone, rather than accosting a craftsman fixing it back to how it was?
Once it's back ship shape…then they ought to be guarding it from graphitists, right?? Not when it's defaced.
Just my two coppers on the matter, of course.
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Funny.
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((actually i'll just eco something…i don't care. do as you wish, and make it out ooc as our fault for not "caring enough". ::shrugs::))
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works on causing said chaos
:twisted:
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I like the defaced marker. A marker that says "Sam's Hill" might make someone idly curious about who Sam was, but a marker that says, "Defaced marker" makes someone very very curious about what it said before it was defaced, and why it was defaced.
Besides of which…
@4c27a6a58d:
((If there are any attempts to re-chisel, i would appreciate it if you could talk to me. the guards on the hill have orders concerning anything like that… ))
I am looking forward to the chaos that would ensue… :twisted:
Maybe a few dead Norwick guards will provoke a war.
I think it is awesome to see Sam's stone getting some RP attention. Hopefull I can be there when the proverbial excrement hits the fan.
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hmmmmm
:twisted:
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@f6b6a503ed=Clan:
Maybe i should ask some follower of Gond to create a steam-powered bulldozer and remove the hill too. Oops! wrong thread!
Actually Sam already did that, he buried nine kegs in the hilltop and detonated them when Rass landed to attack him.
Turned up some nice ore though that kept the miners busy for days
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Honestly… do you think that i would have even started this whole thing if I didnt expect some IC action to be taken? I am not the one complaining.
IC action is all I am asking for.
OOC whining/complaining is just… annoying.
Maybe i should ask some follower of Gond to create a steam-powered bulldozer and remove the hill too. Oops! wrong thread!
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I made a suggestion in the Community Suggestions thread maybe oh a year ago that we have more monuments like this to use as RP props. Monuments are important. That's why the people tearing down the statue of Lenin or the Berlin Wall are still famous images. Bards take enough crap from cynical dwarves as it is that they don't need the added job of having to play tour guide to newcomers over every nook and cranny of Narfell.
Remember Dwin this is a videogame environment. You don't have all that many hills, trees, etc. And the ones we have tend to all look the same anyway. VERBAL markers do a lot to flesh out the environment and give it character, and they help people's RP a lot. The fact that people are posting in this thread is proof enough that the marker did matter. And whether it is entirely truthful or accurate is beside the point, OOCly. Expect some IC action to be taken.
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@8c06b7cb9a=Clan:
sorry… This is getting ridiculous.
Its a friggin rock. its a friggin rock in the middle of no-mans land.
Rocks dont tell stories or retain knowledge.
Thats what we have bards for.
Again, take this all IG and in-character and stop the whining about who would have known what without a rock being there. If Sam's story is only being told because of a ROCK, then its not that good of a story.
Sam's story gets told because of the rock, because new people to the area see the rock and ask 'Who was Sam?"
As to bards, there is a recent thread in the Community Suggestions section about that - in which most of the bards basically threw up their hands and gave up, because the few people that show up at their performances go AFK or are rude.
@8c06b7cb9a=Clan:
Saying that "Norwick's government needs a sense of history" is a) first and foremost meta-gaming–no one from Norwick has done anything to the rock, and b) assuming that everyone liked Sam and that he had no enemies.
It has nothing to do with Metagaming. If the marker is in territory claimed by the Norwick government, then what happens to it - including whether they will restore it or allow it to be restored - is ultimately up to the Norwick government. Given that Norwick has guards posted a few feet away, one might assume those guards at least turned a blind eye when the marker was being defaced. That said, I said nothing about who defaced the marker, and have no idea what it currently shows.
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Peltarch errected the tomb of the unknown soldier.
As for the marker, seems that things are afoot IC anyway
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sorry… This is getting ridiculous.
Its a friggin rock. its a friggin rock in the middle of no-mans land.
Rocks dont tell stories or retain knowledge.
Thats what we have bards for.
Again, take this all IG and in-character and stop the whining about who would have known what without a rock being there. If Sam's story is only being told because of a ROCK, then its not that good of a story.
Saying that "Norwick's government needs a sense of history" is a) first and foremost meta-gaming--no one from Norwick has done anything to the rock, and b) assuming that everyone liked Sam and that he had no enemies.
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I know that IC, several of my characters have had conversations about Sam's Hill, what it was, why, and who Sam was with old timers who remember him, or those who the story was passed down to.
William even met Sam once, brought back briefly for a DM event, and Will tells that story to other PCs.
I don't think any of those things would have occurred - or if they did would have meant as much to the characters involved, were that marker defaced or gone.
Norwick claims the territory now, so it is theirs to do with as they will. I would hope someone in the Norwick government has a better sense of history than to allow the marker to be defaced or removed.
If Peltarch extended their influence further south and chose to remove the tomb of the unknown, I think reactions would be similar.
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Thats what this thread has been to establish. What has actually happened to it, how, especially since I'm told that it was warded.
Just because it's randomly named IG could have just been a DM trying out the renaming widget, or something else. People have been trying to get the official answer on what was done to it.
Now that we have an offical answer…, actions can happen. Assuming that is the official answer.
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((Ok its defaced.
Anyone passing that has seen its defaced I ask this simple question:
Has anyone thought of repairing it to its former glory?
Right. Anyone sent a message in Party chat of what they are doing in case a DM is on?
I don't know which DM changed it and what was RP'd. But when I have been on I have seen no one RP anything to the contrary and I have watched many pass it.))
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Speaking Personally, I've been part of several trips and stops on Sam's hill to pay respects. So saying no-one roleplays it also isn't true.
However if you read Zyphlins post…., he said he wasn't oppossing that people could do things IC with it. He wanted to make sure it wasn't an OOC thing.
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@5f0f8645f2=Zyphlin:
((So basically…the justification for it "being worn away" be herrold isn't that, people are doing it, but its OUR fault that we didn't upkeep it, without any indication it needed upkeep.
Should we start going to the bathroom too? Negative to movement speed for constipation? We should probably have to start paying taxes for any land in Peltarch. And I'm sure dwin will pay for weather damage to his house whenever there is some major storm happenign over in jiyyd?
Please don't try to make up some OOC justification of it to throw it back on everyone else, espicially such a poor one as "no ones RP repainting the marker".
Numerous people still talk of Sam, Sam's hill, and tell new people about it. And there are numerous of us that would've easily fixed a placard if there was ever ANY indication that there was wear on it over the years.
No one is saying that it shouldn't be subject to PC ations, nor that Norwick should have the ability to chisel it off. Some of us are just expression that OOC, its sad to see people randomly decide to take an action...which really is going to have no real IG benifits to them...that will destroy something that was a great sign of what one can accomplish in narfell and of narfellian history.
The comment that no one has taken any notice to it since it has been put in is simply, flat out, not true.))
((Look someone RP's defacing it, its defaced. You rp going to the bathroom I will give you 2xp for knowing a human's basic needs.
Its part of the Map and you can RP with it. Its not just a map marker of the metaphysical.
There is an ACTUAL placeable on the map. RP it. If someone chooses to RP defacing it.
And FYI:: I have never changed the name of that particular rock.
What I am telling you is this.
There is no difference between a tin vein, a town gate, a boulder and that marker. Matter of fact, since its currently in "no man's land" there is not even anyone protecting it.
You can touch it, bash it, RP with it etc. How it exists in Lore is up to you.
All I am saying is, if its there its RP-able. This is not the lobby, Dungeon or hall of heros.
Someone decides to RP it and eveyone throws their hands in the air in protest.
But I ask you this. If its that important to you, why is there never some sort of festival there? Ceremony by the paladins of his order? His guild?
There is plenty of downtime on the server and plenty of opportunity to RP with it. But when its affects how you personally feel about the marker, its treated like a national monument.Only a few people are RPing with the marker, and apparently its in a way you do not appreciate.
Clearly this "Legendary Marker" is not important enough to be RP'd with or spawn any events off of.
As far as what people can accomplish in Narfell. Houses are removed, guilds fold, maps change, PCs are NPCd. No one complains. This is a physical marker in a public map.
We can't start roping off parts of the map as tributes.
Its a playable map. Period.
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The point about the rock it that it's the embryo for tales, without it who will wonder as they pass by alone "Why's it called Sam's hill ?..Who was Sam ?"
Zyph's point is that it can spark a tale from those that know of what can be achieved on the server by IG actions.
Indeed Dwins house could also spark a tale but compare the material of yeah..dwin bought the house…he's a well known crafter and leader of a guild to the tales you can spin of the eastlander hordes..Atol..viscious battles against a relentless foe.
Players will soon learn on the Forums that they can buy a house, lead a guild and so forth where else can they learn of the history of a part of narfell. ?Now I'm not saying Dwin should be any less rewnowned than Sam...if you'll notice I didn't mention Sam in the material at all. Differing Bards hold different people on that pedestal you mentioned.
The thing is..the rock is a placemarker for some of the history IC and OOC of narfell. There are people who would see that marker kept ( most notably bards) in both senses to show what can be achieved OOC and tell tales IC.
Telling them the marker is worn IC will produce an IC response and most likely IC actions to reverse the process. I'm sure if the bards grouped to gether to demolish dwins property there'd be an IC response.
if it was done for OOC concerns I'm damn sure there'd be an OOC response too.
